Retired Bishop Explains Why the Church Invented Hell

john shelby spong-1

Vic Bishop, Staff
Waking Times

Religions tend to invent ideas and concepts just like every other creative human enterprise, and they have unleashed some remarkably bad ideas onto humanity. Most of these are centered around the notion of telling people what to do and how to live their lives, with the aim of convincing people that conformity to church guidelines will bring some intangible reward in the afterlife.

One example of many is the Christian belief that the one and only way not to eternally burn in Hell is to accept Jesus Christ as the savior, as if no other deity or religious experience is valid to the human experience.

The concept of heaven and hell has been so ingrained into the human psyche that many people cannot see beyond this limiting paradigm to any other possibility. Retired Episcopal bishop John Shelby Spong, however, doesn’t seem to believe in the myth of Hell, and during a nationally televised interview he shared his opinions on why he thinks convincing the flock to believe in the concept of ‘Hell’ is absolutely critical to the Church’s survival.

“I don’t think Hell exists. I happen to believe in life after death, but I don’t think it’s got a thing to do with reward and punishment. Religion is always in the control business, and that’s something people don’t really understand. It’s in a guilt-producing control business. And if you have Heaven as a place where you’re rewarded for your goodness, and Hell is a place where you’re punished for your evil, then you sort of have control of the population. And so they create this fiery place which has quite literally scared the Hell out of a lot of people, throughout Christian history. And it’s part of a control tactic.”

>Many people turn to religious teachings for solace and guidance in life in our insane world, but, Bishop Spong seems to think religion helps people be less responsible for their own life and the world we live in, offering a unique perspective from the typical doctrines of Christian belief.

The church doesn’t like for people to grow up, because you can’t control grown-ups. That’s why we talk about being born again. When you’re born again, you’re still a child. People don’t need to be born again. They need to grow up. They need to accept their responsibility for themselves and the world.”

No one can really confirm where human souls are bound after death, so why do religions create stories of places like Heaven and Hell? The answer is simple: to control people and keep the Church alive.

If even some of the most religious men, such as Bishop John Shelby Spong, are starting to publicly expose the motivations behind these stories, perhaps it is time for the masses to critically evaluate the value of religion over the importance of direct personal spiritual experience.

“Every church I know claims that ‘we are the true church’ – that they have some ultimate authority, ‘We have the infallible Pope,’ ‘We have the Bible.’… The idea that the truth of God can be bound in any human system, by any human creed, by any human book, is almost beyond imagination for me.

God is not a Christian. God is not a Jew or a Muslim or a Hindi or Buddhist. All of those are human systems, which human beings have created to try to help us walk into the mystery of God. I honor my tradition. I walk through my tradition. But I don’t think my tradition defines God. It only points me to God.”

The interview with retired Episcopal bishop John Shelby Spong can be viewed below:

Read more articles from Vic Bishop.

About the Author

Vic Bishop is a staff writer for WakingTimes.com and OffgridOutpost.com Survival Tips blog. He is an observer of people, animals, nature, and he loves to ponder the connection and relationship between them all. A believer in always striving to becoming self-sufficient and free from the matrix, please track him down on Facebook.

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  • John

    I don’t believe in Hell, at least not a conscious form of it. In the Bible, Hell should either be Hades/Sheol (the unseen place, or spirit world) or Gehenna (a metaphor for total destruction).

  • Prasad Elumalai

    True.. I agree.. I only know this.. Most Children love fairy tales and most adult seem to love the same in a different way.. In each story, who’s who differs but again its not too different you know.. Truth is – why everyone talks only in words and doesn’t show us any experience of God..? Maybe the so-called God can be experienced only in words I presume..??! I don’t know who gives them the authority to claim the start and the end of existence… Oh..! probably there’s no one to stop them from doing so.. And who grabs it first in the community holds authority over it…! Ha… Ha… Ha.. So funny..! Whether its the fox that fools the lion or a man fools another, it all looks the same to me..!

  • rose white

    That bishop is a typical promoter of Satan.

  • dream1ng

    I do not re-liege nor worship idols.
    I am spirit or another metaphor, soul thus I am spiritual.

    I do research words, their etymology & the context in which the word is used.

    Germanic “hell” means “light”
    Greek “Helios, the God of the Sun”

    Latin” Lucifer” means “light bringer”
    English “Luci” means light

    Sanskrit word “Deva” means “light being” which both the words “Devil” and
    Devine” were derived from.

    English “person” is derived from Latin “persona” which means “a mask worn
    by an actor on stage”
    Latin “per” means “through”
    “Sonare” means “to make sound”

    In 1516 Sir Thomas More wrote the first ‘Utopia’.
    He coined the word ‘utopia’ from the Greek ou-topos meaning ‘no place’ or
    ‘nowhere’.
    But this was a pun – the almost identical Greek word eu-topos means a good
    place.

    So what is heaven? Lofty ideas and places?
    Could both heaven and hell be subjective ideas of places based on one’s
    beliefs of a so-called afterlife? A utopia of your imageinaction?

    Rather than placing one’s faith in belief systems in the absence of direct
    experiences,
    I advocate direct experiences through meditating, phasing/out of body experiences and lucid dreaming. Then you shall know that you are both the dreamer and the dream;
    dreaming many U-in-verses, hiSTORY acting through many personas.

    Alan Watts – The Dream Of Life (3.38 mins)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vdlkoQf014

    Source: http://www.vibrani.com/heaven&hell.htm

  • dream1ng

    I do not re-liege nor worship idols.
    I am spirit or another metaphor, soul thus I am spiritual.

    I do research words, their etymology & the context in which the word is used.

    Germanic “hell” means “light”
    Greek “Helios, the God of the Sun”

    Latin” Lucifer” means “light bringer”
    English “Luci” means light

    Sanskrit word “Deva” means “light being” which both the words “Devil” and Devine” were derived from.

    English “person” is derived from Latin “persona” which means “a mask worn by an actor on stage”
    Latin “per” means “through”
    “Sonare” means “to make sound”

    In 1516 Sir Thomas More wrote the first ‘Utopia’.
    He coined the word ‘utopia’ from the Greek ou-topos meaning ‘no place’ or ‘nowhere’.
    But this was a pun – the almost identical Greek word eu-topos means a good place.

    So what is heaven? Lofty ideas and places?
    Could both heaven and hell be subjective ideas of places based on one’s beliefs of a so-called afterlife? A utopia of your imageinaction?

    Rather than placing one’s faith in belief systems in the absence of direct experiences,
    I advocate meditating, phasing/out of body experiences and lucid dreaming.
    Then you shall know that you are both the dreamer and the dream;
    dreaming many U-in-verses, hiSTORY acting through many personas.

    Alan Watts – The Dream Of Life
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vdlkoQf014

    Source: http://www.vibrani.com/heaven&hell.htm

  • Jeorg Adams

    ALL religions and their doctrines were invented for the purpose of controlling people. None of it is real. Only Buddha admitted that he invented his religion to comfort the people. There is no heaven or hell. The truth is well beyond the ability of 99% of the population to understand.

  • Theoldlady

    My favorite chapter in the bible is Ecclesiastes chapter 12. All go to the same place, good or bad.

  • John

    Hitler wanted a unified Germany under Christianity,
    Catholics and Protestants….

    Adolf Hitler speech, in his New Year Message on
    Jan. 1, 1934:

    “While we destroyed the Centre Party, we have
    not only brought thousands of priests back into the Church, but to millions of
    respectable people we have restored their faith in their religion and in their
    priests. The union of the Evangelical Church in a single Church for the whole
    Reich, the Concordat with the Catholic Church, these are but
    milestones on the road which leads to the establishment of a useful relation
    and a useful co operation between the Reich and the two Confessions.”

    Hitler was protective of the Catholic authority, but
    realized that Germany must be united under the hand of Christianity which
    included Protestants and Catholics.

  • Within our human conditioning is imprinted terror and rage, guilt and powerlessness and a sense of an endlessness or loop of suffering that cannot be escaped. So terrible in fact that a split mind is forced out from an unconsciousness or amnesial denial as a temporary and limited freedom from such inner conflict – though it remains archetypally present beneath appearance. Our separation trauma may seem to be past or rationalized or airbrushed away – excepting our identity in the conditions of lidding our mind is lost when our core separation imprinting is triggered – and personality fragments that are part of the original cause of a separated and conflicted sense of self operate in our name and as a core sense of survival against whatever or whoever is associated with the ‘evil’.
    We all have some part in rejection and abandonment, treachery and betrayal, hate and punishment, deceit and power – and we all trigger each other in different ways so as hating our own shadow can be mirrored in all participants with perhaps none of them having any willingness or capacity for communication because the sense of threat and grievance is so overwhelming – that self certainty only reacts.
    The conditioned mind is only reaction – masked in all kinds of mutually agreed definitions that operate as the ‘lid’ and the diversionary matrix.
    I am articulating the ‘territory’ in a way that is not a different territory than other attempts to articulate. What I invite is a willingness to feel within rather than react from thinking that does not allow or have willingness for healing. For the injunction to “Resist ye not evil’ has a very specific meaning that breaks the cycle of hatred in which the mind spins without really escaping or transcending a hatred within. Hatred hides in self-righteousness and there are those who are so heavily identified in self-righteousness because it ‘protects’ them from what they are as yet unable or unwilling to face, own or allow to be transformed. In certain triggered situations such people are us.
    If we are defined in terms of power to deny then we are defined fearfully or in terms of lack of worthiness that drives the search for validation and reinforcement in external terms. True authority is from true Authorship and although we may seem to be made in fear, there is another Foundation that conflict hides.
    Manipulators (all of us) learn how to uncover the weakness in others and use it to leverage outcomes we think we prefer rather than simply and openly ask for what we want with the extension of freedom to say no – and acceptance of their worth no less because that is their choice.
    That any group or institution identifies in the threat and possibility of losing status, influence and power – and therefore becomes fearfully reactive rather than serve their original function is the story of human history. And with willingness for healing as our introspection we can identify denied feelings and give them an acceptance of honesty which then opens the capacity to listen and feel rather than desperately react.
    Underneath or within our denied feelings – be they negative or positive – are the original definitions of conditioning that run us more than we think. They can be called mis-taken or partiality taken as whole at expense of wholeness – but until they are owned and brought to question within a willingness for healing they are experienced as reality – regardless how self-hating or self-punishing the embodiment.
    Sacrificing true will in order to align with a terrible power is the human condition – whether that power is seen in a Caesar or a collective system of rules. And so a mask of identity is presented in place of true presence as a protection from lovelessness or hate and rejection – for we associate love with sacrifice – and largely demand it of Presence as if to feed from the denial of Life while claiming to protect or empower it.
    Judgement – in the sense of divide and rule – is a device by which the Son of God is cut into pieces – and the heart of wholeness is lost to a reversal that then seeks to operate as if IT is the whole – and does so with the same ‘mind’ that fragmented- which is a coercive deceit or if you like a mistake that was denied consciousness that became a lie within our core definition. An adulteration; a segregation; a conflicted purpose; a denial, and a cover up for the sake of the power to persist in the terms of an illusion that cannot be exposed because the consequence is too terrible – too unthinkable. The cost of persisting in a lie is awareness of true. But the release of the investment in the lie is the condition in which truth arises of itself – as the grace of being that is the power to undo fear or rage from within and NOT by coercions from ‘without’. But what is denied or protected from awareness is given power OF denial.
    It is not enough to look at the effects or embodiments in our relationships and society and assign blame and activate against perceived evil if we remain wilfully blind to the same in ourself. The forms may be different but the underlying pattern is recognisable to honest introspection. Self righteousness will rage at this – for its identity and power in its world depend on the power of hate to deny the evil it fears in itself yet ‘sees’ in its world and in others first and foremost.
    The cultural expression changes but the underlying human condition-ing is the same. We think we are more evolved – but are we not more fragmented in complexity of diluted consciousness that barely Feels or knows the power and nature of Existence – being entangled in thinking. what kind of thinking – and to what purpose?

  • Diane

    but see, you are assuming that scripture is the truth. it could just as easily be all made up, therefore what you think is true, isn’t. that’s what i mean that we don’t know what the truth is. we are going by what we are told but it doesn’t make it any truer.

    • No-one needs to ‘assume’ anything when it comes to scripture. It is full of promises made by God to the believer. If the promises bear fruit, then any assumption is blown away like dust. If the promises do NOT come to pass, then become a Hindu, Moslem, Buddhist, whatever. Take your pick. I have chosen to stick with Biblical Truth because it has been through that medium that God has revealed Himself personally to me. How can I deny personal experience?
      Christianity is not a religion such as Buddhism, where one decides upon a set course of beliefs, chooses to follow them because he believes they are wise and will make him a better person.

      That is not how Christianity works. True Christianity is not a religion, although religion plays a part. True Christianity is a relationship. A relationship every bit as real and as vibrant and as essentially personal as the one I have with my wife, sister, children, or workmates. I know HIM. One doesn’t get to know anybody through reading about them in a book, or hearing of him through teachers, regardless of how accurate they may be.

      Oh, and I did not ‘find’ God, as many would claim. He found me. He entered into my life at a time when I did not think I needed Him, I was well off, content, had all I needed to lead a happy life and the last thing I though I required was religion or God. Without reading a Bible (had never ever even touched one) , without darkening the door of any church, without anyone else close or even in the house, I met Jesus Christ in person when He came to my room late one night…at my invitation. And the things in my life that I never knew I needed He provided. Peace. Forgiveness. Freedom from habits that I now know were threatening to destroy not just me, but others as well. Jesus did for me what He can do for others, what He has promised to do if we ask…give us HOPE. Because despite my so called delusional contentment, I had no hope. My life was simply a self pleasing self loving hedonistic lifestyle and Jesus, the very same One that rose from the dead 2000 years ago and is now waiting and watching for anyone who may need Him and call upon His name, to change their lives, sometimes like mine, in a radical miraculous way.

      No assumptions of truth from my end Diane. I KNOW!

      • Diane

        sure there is, you’re assuming there is a God. belief isn’t the same as truth.

        • You are not listening Diane. I said Christianity is a relationship. Just like you have with your own father/mother. I don’t denigrate your relationship with them claiming it is no more than a belief in their existence. That would be preposterous, insulting, and nonsensical. Why do you do that with ‘true’ Christians and their Creator Father in heaven?
          In saying this I fully understand there are many who claim to be Christians but their behavior and character clearly indicate that they have no relationship with God whatsoever. Their behavior, rather than being a reflection of a righteous God, reflects the character of an unrighteous devil.

  • L Garou

    “Archbishop – A Christian ecclesiastic of a rank superior to that attained by Christ.”
    (H. L. Mencken)

  • Diane

    how do you know what is the truth? what you believe could be completely false? that’s the problem. no one knows the “truth”. like the bishop says, every religion claims to be the “right” one over all the others and like citizen8 says, religions by it’s nature divides people and causes these “fight” because they have to believe they are the true religion and must have the most “members” to keep that particular religion alive.

  • Awakened2Truth From YouTube

    Jesus rebuke this bishop of satan and wally63 false teacher for white hot in the lake they shall burn unquenchable;

    2Ti 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
    2Ti 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
    2Ti 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
    2Ti 3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
    2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
    2Ti 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
    2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

    *Question: “Is hell real? Is hell eternal?”

    *Answer:* It is interesting that a much higher percentage of people believe in the existence of heaven than believe in the existence of hell. According to the Holy Bible, though, hell is just as real as heaven. The Holy Bible clearly and explicitly teaches that hell is a real place to which the wicked/unbelieving are sent after death. We have all sinned against God (Romans 3:23). The just punishment for that sin is death (Romans 6:23). Since all of our sin is ultimately against God (Psalm 51:4), and since God is an infinite and eternal Being, the punishment for sin, death, must also be infinite and eternal. Hell is this infinite and eternal death which we have earned because of our sin. The punishment of the wicked dead in hell is described throughout Scripture as “eternal fire” (Matthew 25:41), “unquenchable fire” (Matthew 3:12), “shame and everlasting contempt” (Daniel 12:2), a place where “the fire is not quenched” (Mark 9:44-49), a place of “torment” and “fire” (Luke 16:23-24), “everlasting destruction” (2 Thessalonians 1:9), a place where “the smoke of torment rises forever and ever” (Revelation 14:10-11), and a “lake of burning sulfur” where the wicked are “tormented day and night forever and ever” (Revelation 20:10). The punishment of the wicked in hell is as never ending as the bliss of the righteous in heaven. Jesus Himself indicates that punishment in hell is just as everlasting as life in heaven (Matthew 25:46). The wicked are forever subject to the fury and the wrath of God. Those in hell will acknowledge the perfect justice of God (Psalm 76:10). Those who are in hell will know that their punishment is just and that they alone are to blame (Deuteronomy 32:3-5). Yes, hell is real. Yes, hell is a place of torment and punishment that lasts forever and ever, with no end. Praise God that, through Jesus, we can escape this eternal fate (John 3:16, 18, 36).

    *Question: “Why is the idea of eternal damnation so repulsive to many people?”

    *Answer:* In the shifting winds of modern cultures, the idea of everlasting torment and damnation is difficult for many people to grasp. Why is this? The Holy Bible makes it clear that hell is a literal place. The Christ spoke more about hell than He did of heaven. Not only Satan and his minions will be punished there, everyone who rejects Jesus the Christ will spend eternity right along with them. A desire to reject or revise the doctrine of hell will not mitigate its flames or make the place go away. Still, the idea of eternal damnation is spurned by many, and here are some reasons for it: The influence of contemporary thought. In this postmodern era, many go to great lengths to assure no one is offended, and the biblical doctrine of hell is considered offensive. It is too harsh, too old-fashioned, too insensitive. The wisdom of this world is focused on this life, with no thought of the life to come. Fear. Never-ending, conscious punishment devoid of any hope is indeed a frightening prospect. Many people would rather ignore the source of fear than face it and deal with it biblically. The fact is, hell should be frightening, considering it is the place of judgment originally created for the devil and his angels (Matthew 25:41). A flawed view of God’s love. Many who reject the idea of eternal damnation do so because they find it difficult to believe that a loving God could banish people to a place as horrific as hell for all eternity. However, God’s love does not negate His justice, His righteousness, or His holiness. Neither does His justice negate His love. In fact, God’s love has provided the way to escape His wrath: the sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the cross (John 3:16-18). A downplaying of sin. Some find it shockingly unfair that the recompense for a mere lifetime of sinning should be an eternal punishment. Others reject the idea of hell because, in their minds, sin isn’t all that bad. Certainly not bad enough to warrant eternal torture. Of course, it is usually our own sin that we downplay; other people might deserve hell—murderers and the like. This attitude reveals a misunderstanding of the universally heinous nature of sin. The problem is an insistence on our own basic goodness, which precludes thoughts of a fiery judgment and denies the truth of Romans 3:10 (“There is no one righteous, not even one”). The egregiousness of iniquity compelled the Christ to the cross and as God in the flesh, He hated sin to death. Aberrant theories. Another reason people reject the concept of eternal damnation is that they have been taught alternative theories. One such theory is universalism, which says that everyone will eventually make it to heaven. Another theory is annihilationism, in which the existence of hell is acknowledged, but its eternal nature is denied. Annihilationists believe that those who end up in hell will eventually die and cease to exist (i.e., they will be annihilated). This theory simply makes hell a temporary punishment. Both these theories are presented as viable options to the biblical teaching on hell; however, both make the mistake of placing human opinion over divine revelation. Incomplete teaching. Many contemporary pastors who do believe in the doctrine of hell consider it simply too delicate a subject to preach on. This further contributes to the modern denial of hell. Congregants in churches where hell is not preached are ignorant of what the Holy Bible says on the subject and are prime candidates for deception on the issue. A pastor’s responsibility is “to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to the saints” (Jude 1:3), not pick and choose what parts of the Bible to leave out. Satan’s ploys. Satan’s first lie was a denial of judgment. In the Garden of Eden, the serpent told Eve, “You will not surely die” (@2), and the blindness he produces includes a denial of God’s holy decrees. Convince the unsaved that there is no judgment, and they can “eat, drink and be merry” with no care for the future. If we understand the nature of our Creator, we should have no difficulty understanding the concept of hell. “[God] is the Rock, His works are perfect, and all His ways are just.

    A faithful God who does no wrong, upright and just is He” (@2).To contradict the Bible’s teaching on hell is to say, essentially, “If I were God, I would not make hell like that.” The problem with such a mindset is its inherent pride—it smugly suggests that we can improve on God’s plan. However, we are not wiser than God; we are not more loving or more just. Rejecting or revising the biblical doctrine of hell carries a sad irony, which one writer put this way: “The only result of attempts, however well meaning, to air-condition hell is to assure that more and more people wind up there.” The Lake of Fire is eternal, to claim it isn’t, is calling Jesus a liar and an eternal death sentence.

    Stop believing DEVILS telling you “PROPER EXEGESIS” when they are NOT born again (John 3:3-5). He may have a portion of things correct but if we are not born again, and ‘teaching Scripture’ we only lead others into a ditch;

    Mat 15:10 And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand:
    Mat 15:11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.
    Mat 15:12 Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying?
    Mat 15:13 But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up.
    Mat 15:14 Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.

    Hell is a PLACE of ETERNAL TORMENT & is described as:

    ▄ Everlasting Fire (Matt. 25:41, Matt. 13:49-50)
    ▄ Eternal Punishment (Matt. 25:46, Rev. 20:10)
    ▄ Outer Darkness (Matt. 8:12, Matt. 22:13, Jude 13)
    ▄ Everlasting Destruction (2 Thess. 1:9, 2 Thess. 2:10-12)
    ▄ Lake of Fire (Rev. 19:20, Rev. 20:14-15);
    ▄ Hell is PREPARED for: the Devil & his angels (Matt. 25:41, 2 Peter 2:4),
    ▄ Wicked Men & Women (Psalm 9:17, Rom. 2:5, Jude 7, Proverbs 6:12-7:27)
    ▄ Nations that Forget God (Psalm 9:17)
    ▄ Disobedient, Apostates (Rom. 2:8-9, Hebrews 6:4-8, 2 Peter 2:21-22)
    ▄ The Beast & the False Prophet (Rev. 19:20, Rev. 20:10)
    ▄ Rejecters of the Gospel of the Christ (Matthew 10:15, 2 Thess 1:8-9, Galatians 1:6-9)
    ▄ Worshipers of the Beast (Rev. 14:11),
    ▄ Fake, self-deceived “believers” (Matt 7:15-23, James 2:14-26)
    ▄ Adulterers, fornicators, drunks, etc. (1 Corinthians 5:9-10, Gal 5:19-21, Ephesians 5:3-5)
    ▄ Those hated by God (Psalm 11:5-7, Psalm 5:4-6)
    ▄ Punishment in Hell is described as: Eternal (Isaieh 33:14, Rev 14:10, Rev 20:10)
    ▄ Bodily (Matthew 5:29-30)
    ▄ In the Soul (Matt 10:28, Luke 12:4-5)
    ▄ With Degrees (Matt 23:14, Luke 20:47, Mark 12:40, John 19:11)
    ▄ Unchangeable (Luke 16:22-31, Isaieh 40:8, Malachi 3:6)
    ▄ Inhabitants of Hell: Possess Memory (Luke 16:23,25, Isaieh 14:9-10, Matt 12:41-42, Cry for Release
    from Hell, Weeping (Luke 16:24, Matt 8:12, Matt 13:41-42)
    ▄ Cannot Escape from God (Psalm 139:8, Amos 9:1-4, Jeremiah 23:23-33).
    ▄ Additional References: Second Death (Revelation 2:11, a death that HURTS),
    ▄ Parable of the 10 Virgins (Matthew 25, the Door is PERMANENTLY SHUT)
    ▄ Hell Fire, Furnace of Fire (Matt 5:22, Matt 13:42, 50)
    ▄ Resurrection to LIFE or DAMNATION (John 5:28-29, Daniel 12:2, John 3:36)
    ▄ Worm will not die, fire not quenched (Isaieh 66:23-24, Mark 9:43-48)
    ▄ Unrepentant Sinners Left Outside (Revelation 22:15, turned away from God’s kingdom)
    ▄ Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit (Matt 12:31-32, no forgiveness ever anywhere),
    ▄ God Loves Judgment (Isaieh 61:8, Amos 5:18-24, Hebrews 10:26-31)
    ▄ THE WRATH OF GOD (Nahum 1:2-8, Deuteronomy 32:22-43, Revelation 19:11-21).

  • Marcus Jasso

    The comments are always so much better than the article…

  • Sonia Margarita Gangotena

    He really doesn’t know his theology! Not even Jewish history and theology, nor Christian history from John the Baptist on. Why is he given a plataform when he seems pretty ignorant?

  • James McDowell

    I’ve never heard any other religious official speak that much truth and clarity.
    I believe that Man created religion when he had finally evolved enough to understand mortality….. Fear of death and the treachery of mother nature and the desire to live on and stay out of harm’s way, caused humans to create gods and religions. ….Religion and government found a partnership in ancient times to control people, and it still works today, especially in Islam….

  • alex manic

    U attack christianity with all of your powers..christian religion is the only true religion..hell really exists is not invention at all..this bishop must be freemason bishop who is ordered to confuse the people.. The illuminati attack christianity and church with all their power.waking times stop confusing people by attacking christianity, u r playing the game of the devil and the nwo.u speak out some truths and then u mix it with new age crap .Jesus christ is the only way to save your sour wake up!

  • Guns N Rosaries

    So the create world and universe just came into existence on it’s own?
    Atheism is a religion; people become atheists because they do not want there to be a God.
    And to be consistent will you leave the hate, control and manipulation at the laboratory door?
    You want to “co-exist” in a world without God, yet the same God Who you deny allows war, famine, and pestilence to awaken you from your unbelief.
    Atheistic humanity has no idea the context of our existence and probably never will……..the reason being is because they are atheists.

    • RJ O’Guillory

      ….you are a very angry individual. I never said I was an Atheist or an Agnostic. I said I was a….”Contextualist”…and I clearly indicated that I have no faith in any of the conclusions that phony Prophets….(religious or scientific)…have dreamed up over the history of mankind. You know that you don’t know the context of our existence, but to admit that would take away everything you rely upon to hold yourself together. Sad. People like you are the reason wars are started…and why humanity has to go through these “renaissance periods” from time to time.
      RJ O’Guillory

      • Guns N Rosaries

        You mistake anger for charity…..and you just revealed your problem at its core…..you have no faith.
        And no, people like me are not the reason wars are started…..wars are fought due to the sins of men…..you should learn the difference.
        “Renaissance periods?” The more man rebels from God, the more turmoil, conflict, strife, and social upheaval he brings about……peace, tranquility, and calm would be the norm if man would just crucify his wants and desires.

        • RJ O’Guillory

          …well, you just proved my initial point about the two most common words used in religion…”belief & faith”. These are emotional retreats from the real world…and allow the “believer” to be less-than-responsible for their own actions. As they have… “faith”…! Okay…I’ll bite…what is your…”faith”…based upon? What tangible proof do you have that your …”faith”…in your God is more accurate than a Muslim’s…”faith”…in their God? How about the Jewish religion? Sun worshiping people? What do you use to justify your…”faith”…in the religion-fairy-tale you were programmed to accept? What makes your … “faith”…so much more accurate, acceptable or righteous than The Big Bang Theory? Wasn’t it all of you religious people who were hanging people and burning them at the stake just a few centuries ago. Wasn’t it The Pope who went after Galileo about the earth being the center of the universe and all? How about those religious leaders who still claim the earth is only a few thousand years old? Where did their faith come from? What evidence did they use to suppress new knowledge and information because it didn’t follow…”the faith” they believed in? I know you don’t have any legitimate answers to these questions, so I really don’t expect legitimate answers. But you should also understand that I don’t care. My observations are not conclusions based upon hatred of any one belief or religion. I simply know that no one knows…thus all of these religious and sometimes scientific fairy-tales. I am a firm supporter of using whatever you have to to get through your short time on the planet in the most fulfilling manner possible. As I cannot disprove your belief system…(nor any others)…I am ethically forced to accept your belief in your own belief- system. As long as you do not force your beliefs upon others… or bring harm to others…you can believe in the Spaghetti Monster God if you so desire.
          RJ O’Guillory

          • Guns N Rosaries

            You’re projecting…….

        • Prasad Elumalai

          As far as I know, Faith is a human necessity if there arises fear or conflict. No is no other trigger point. Seems people who needs faith are either fearful or conflicting-type in nature..! Or may be both..?!

        • RJ O’Guillory

          …yes…I have no blind faith…that would be dumb & stupid, as well as a waste of the intellect I was imbued with at birth. Show me some tangible evidence of your god, and I’m on the Faith-Train. Otherwise…you are simply regurgitating religious-verbal-vomit that you’ve been indoctrinated with…leaving you somewhat functional, but essentially as brain-dead as possible. It is much easier to manipulate you that way. Now, go write a check to your faith-healer’s…and make yourself feel spiritual.
          RJ O’Guillory

      • Guns N Rosaries

        Oh, so you’re a heathen…..now I understand perfectly. And no, Christians don;t start wars…..people who can’t stand any part of the truth of Christianity are who start wars.

    • Prasad Elumalai

      You seem to fit every thing into your understanding..! Its essentially trying to pull the whole universe though a ring hole… I agree there’s existence everywhere including you and me.. But jumping to conclusion that someone or something to have created it is baseless.. Unless you see the creation yourself, you can’t make valid claims.. I am not any logician, but jumping to conclusions would seem a pointless thing even to a kid..! I have this urge to know too… but jumping to conclusions is too much.. Besides, there are so many religions talking about creation in many different ways… If truth is one, then that truth should atleast be revealed in any one scripture of some religion right? which makes every others’ false hence, the other religions must be fake ones.. As far as I know, there are atheists because of theists who came in the first place.. now they are against each other’s views like eternal rivals.. Most people don’t know there is another category of people who don’t jump to conclusions like theist nor willing to participate to be aatheist and have a view against every theist.. These people have urges to know but they do practices such that they come into direct experience rather meddling with words, views or imagination. Of all things I know, If I rip of everything from you that has been taught and learnt right from the day you are born in this world and let you live, you will just be another piece of life, like every other plant and animal species. You would not be in this state of finding things about God and stuffs.. Remember, even now your idea of god is just in your imagination and your experience is only that much.. You might link things that have happened in your life to God but i could describe similar things in my life without the name God. Some people even claim “God is love”.. I know how to show and experience love without meddling with the name God. Truly God is just a childhood fetish most people have.. Moreover where this word God come from.. It just a logical inference that early man has made..!! Its not yours even..!! What you see everywhere is creation.. I don’t know how this creation came into existence but I only know that its all left with the present life and non-life forms to manage it. Even if this creation was made by someone or something, why bother.. the created one is left to you.. Why bother the creator(if there’s one)..?? Whole idea that most people have about the so-called god is He/She/It is there for saving people or in broadest sense save lives.. How pathetic..!! People call God whenever they need help… They are not leaving God alone to take care of His/Her Business…!! That’s so selfish you know…!

      • Guns N Rosaries

        Rubbish.

  • crystalluv

    The word DUH comes to mind.

  • Sink Chicken

    I am a member of “The Church of What’s Happening Now”. Our foundational creed is “Thou shalt not force your beliefs unto others”

  • L Garou

    But no one need guess as to why it was un-invented, eh?

  • Guns N Rosaries

    Another brainwashed fool who cannot study both sides of the issue, but rather insists that the enemy who wrote the history against the Church is 100% truthful and above reproach.

    • god

      You have not answered my question: ‘who wrote the bible’?

      • Guns N Rosaries

        The books/epistles of the Canon commonly known as The Bible were written by men who were set aside by God and inspired by the Holy Ghost.
        If atheism is so “grand” an idea, so “grand” a system, so “grand” a religion for the heathen, then how is that world economic collapse is right at our doorstep?

    • RJ O’Guillory

      …..Ha….ha….ha…..ha…..ha….ha…ha…, no, please…..stop…I can’t catch my breathe….ha….ha….ha…he…he…he…ho….ho…. ho….ha …ha…ha….please…no more…..ha…ha…ha…Wow!
      RJ

  • Also, God knows the ending from the beginning. So why would a loving God bring us here on earth to feel such pain and then give us free will but punish us eternally if we use it? Personally I do believe there is a God, but not the one in the bible. It can’t be. I would never think that God would say it’s okay for people to treat people badly like slavery, inequality to women, hating and killing gay people and disobedient children and allowing a rapist to marry his victim if he paid the father of the girl he raped. Yeah, all of that and more is in the bible. But yet we are supposed to take that this is God’s word when there are so many scriptures and writings that did not make the final cut? And who vetted the people who made the decision to include and exclude those writings? I am left to believe that there is a God. And the bible has some good stuff in it. But it was written by fallible men who were trying to explain the character of god and failed miserably. Pretty sure I’m going to get some hate on this. Oh well.This is supposed to be a grown up board but if you look at the replies, the ones that are the most rude are the christian replies

  • I often wonder about the people who never heard of Christ but follow their own “God” whether they believed in a god or not. Like, Christians want to go out and spread their religion when there are people who are perfectly fine believing what they believe. And when people don’t change, history has proven that they are punished. Native Americans, African tribes, anywhere and any place there are humans there have been people with their own beliefs. It is as if the world has been kidnapped and forced into this 4000 year old war between Christians, Jews and Muslims. I think we would be better off and have more peace in the world if people where not forced to take up the religion of someone else.

  • Guns N Rosaries

    Ah, a real “oracle” is our presence……I am humbled before your “infinite wisdom”………..NOT!!
    The course of humanity was changed by Christianity, and now humanity is reverting back to its original state due to its rejection of Christianity and you think this is a man-made invention?!?
    Since you reject Jesus you will be given (perhaps) a second opportunity……to worship the Anti-jesus as your “God.” After all, you merit such an opportunity.

  • Guns N Rosaries

    Why don’t you ask Adam and Eve what happened to them when they infringed?
    No, it is you that have the limited definition…..it is you that wishes to try to lower God down to your standard…..a very foolish thing to attempt.

    • god

      I may as well ask Hansel and Gretel, if you insist on fictional characters!

      The rest of your comment similarly lacks in logic.

      • Guns N Rosaries

        In the beginning there was nothing…….which exploded.

        Is that your kind of “logic?”

        • god

          And where did I posit such?

          • Guns N Rosaries

            In your suggestion that matter of faith are fairy tales…..thus, I believed you to be an atheist.

  • TravellerThruKalpas

    What control issues? There are many, seemingly endless, kinds of discussions and conversations about religion which take these kinds of approaches to understanding — namely, based on what is available exoterically, or on the surface, of the religion considered, and not taking account what other religions or traditions might have to say. For example, the study of Tibetan Buddhism by a practitioner of one of the monotheistic traditions can yield effective moments of understanding aspects of experiences such as “hell” (i.e., comparing hell with the experience of various “bardos” or states in Tibetan Buddhism).

    Another very useful consideration is one related to souls not only having many rebirths, but each one on a journey of soul evolution itself — with the soul making efforts in each human lifetime to gain more experience, knowledge and wisdom. After 60 years, my experience of people has suggested to me very strongly that there are various levels of spiritual maturity, that there are younger souls and older souls.

    Keeping that in mind, the variety of religions and spiritual paths — not just what they teach, but how they teach it — makes much more sense in this light, and why they need to exist. Younger souls may need more discipline and hard rules to offer structure to their lives; some need the “fear of God”; others require means to practice devotional worship, whether prayers, chanting or prostrations. Some only need silent refuge and meditation, calming the body and mind.

    In the end, there is a reason why all these things exist, and they serve many people with different needs. That will always be the case, with the older souls in the world helping the younger ones. However, religious traditions have the edge over so-called “modern” society’s means, because they have the proven track-record for how to treat souls (which something like psychotherapy can’t). It isn’t religion that has become irrelevant, but much of human life today. Religion is the placeholder for those younger souls who think they want to explore their freedom from it, until they become disillusioned with the world… and then return to the only real refuge waiting for them.

  • TravellerThruKalpas

    What control issues? There are many, seemingly endless, kinds of discussions and conversations about religion which take these kinds of approaches to understanding — namely, based on what is available exoterically, or on the surface, of the religion considered, and not taking account what other religions or traditions might have to say. For example, the study of Tibetan Buddhism by a practitioner of one of the monotheistic traditions can yield effective moments of understanding aspects of experiences such as “hell” (i.e., comparing hell with the experience of various “bards” or states in Tibetan Buddhism).

    Another very useful consideration is one related to souls not only having many rebirths, but each one on a journey of soul evolution itself — with the soul making efforts in each human lifetime to gain more experience, knowledge and wisdom. After 60 years, my experience of people has suggested to me very strongly that there are various levels of spiritual maturity, that there are younger souls and older souls.

    Keeping that in mind, the variety of religions and spiritual paths — not just what they teach, but how they teach it — makes much more sense in this light, and why they need to exist. Younger souls may need more discipline and hard rules to offer structure to their lives; some need the “fear of God”; others require means to practice devotional worship, whether prayers, chanting or prostrations. Some only need silent refuge and meditation, calming the body and mind.

    In the end, there is a reason why all these things exist, and they serve many people with different needs. That will always be the case, with the older souls in the world helping the younger ones. However, religious traditions have the edge over so-called “modern” society’s means, because they have the proven track-record for how to treat souls (which something like psychotherapy can’t). It isn’t religion that has become irrelevant, but much of human life today. Religion is the placeholder for those younger souls who think they want to explore their freedom from it, until they become disillusioned with the world… and then return to the only real refuge waiting for them.

  • ChaCubed

    And failing that goal miserably, they try to get laws written to punish people for “sins.”

  • DesertSun59

    “I happen to believe in life after death”

    His belief is totally irrelevant to the fact that no one has ever come back from the ‘dead’ to describe it. This is despite the fact that over 100 billion human beings have died and not one of them has ever made it back to give us the DEFINITIVE decription of what it’s like.

  • Dolmance

    Stalin knew what to do with them. Someday we might consider rising above our monkey cousins and do the same.

  • LinusandSnoopy

    I have to throw in my two cents. I’m liberal. I’m gay. I don’t call myself a Christian. I believe in a Loving Source of Higher Consciousness. I’ve never liked the stuff that John Selby Spong says or writes. I suspect he despises most anything associated with the church that fed him and likely still feeds him through a retirement program. I readily admit he might be a wonderful person. I’ve never bothered to spend a lot of time looking into he is as a person because most everything I’ve ever heard from him is what he’s against rather than what he’s for. End of my two cents.

  • J. Nev

    I guess the bishop has never seen the show DEAD FILES, watch it and see if there isn’t true EVIL in the world…

    • Kim

      That is a TV show. It is fiction. All reality TV is a lie and scripted.

      • J. Nev

        You are a moron…

  • Deldrick Tilley

    hi 😀

  • Veri Tas

    I have never come across such an awakened and honest clergyman. Thank you!

  • Julian O’Neill

    we know about real hells on Earth. people in some parts of the world live in places that any artist depicting ‘Hell’ could use. Horrific literal rubbish tips with sewer ‘rivers’ running through it, water not fit to drink or air to breathe.
    We know the hells of the Nazi camps, at least from observation of news footage. Being there would have been another thing. One can go on. So real hell can exist. Places that are truly awful.
    People can experience hells on psychedelic trips, and people that have had so-called OBEs and NDEs sometimes report of hellish experience. BUT the mistake is to assume that such experiences are *static*! What the toxic myth-makers have done is use such visionary experience and actual experience as created on Earth via oppression to pretend that there is an ‘everlasting’ state post physical death. Same is so for positing a static everlasting heaven or blissful state after death. BOTH are used as mindcontrol, like the proverbial carrot and the stick. What we need to understand that reality, life and death is dynamic and NOT static. This is why ecstatic experience can be so liberating, and why oppressive authoritarianism does not like its slaves experiencing ecstasy, because they are all about controlling via their fear-based propaganda.

  • Citizen8

    Mention ‘religion’ and BOOM! People argue and fight and separate. Isn’t the whole idea of religion to unite in love and peace? Yet its effects are so divisive.

  • Jerry Cook

    Spiritual awareness with compassion works best without the separations of religions or any of the imagined gods or an imaginary Mr Sky Daddy. We are parts of a larger whole, as one, no gods needed. The Torah 3 from Abraham & the Torah, Jacob, Jesus & Mohammed, are from an ancient limited knowledge mid east desert people, full of myths, that are still fighting over the versions, after 4,000 years. We know more now. Wake up! This is Waking Times!

  • Paul R Baeyens

    Exactly right! When you get away from religion and rely only on the unadulterated truth of God’s word you live in the light of that word and rest assured. Thank you for sharing the accuracy of God’s word and not another opinion.

    • wally63

      Glad to help.

      • Ben Wilson

        I very rarely venture into comment threads, but I really appreciate y’all’s comments on this topic.

  • Badger Badgerism

    WRONG…THAT IS ABSOLUTE BS…I am not going to trust an idiot like that talking smack
    God created hell…to put jackasses like that dude in

  • DesW

    I don’t agree with him, but certainly acknowledge that the church has abused its position and is very much about making money. From a spiritual prospective, good and evil have their respective sources and how do we identify them?

  • jay67

    So it begs the question, what is the consequence of evil deeds ? If the answer is that there is none, then the line between good and evil goes from out of focus to non existent. Just what Hollywood wants, a totally immoral and non judgmental society, narcissistic and without accountability. Anything goes or you are a bigot.

  • L Garou

    There are many Hells, but none eternal.
    I think that’s where the big gap in understanding is.
    Does a father punish his son eternally, for something the son did wrong?
    Of course not. Why then, would God?
    That’s absurd.

    • Lemming Ferdinand

      unless the son wants to be separated from the father. A loving father would allow the separation.

      • L Garou

        Hence … here we are.

    • Guns N Rosaries

      A crime against an Infinite Being requires an infinite punishment. When you have a better appreciation of the Supreme Majesty of God, then perhaps you will understand the gravity of deadly sin.

      • L Garou

        Duh.

        • Guns N Rosaries

          X-Box down?

          • L Garou

            Low on oil?

          • Guns N Rosaries

            X-Box needs oil?

      • WhiteEagle

        Well, that’s why Christ came to earth…to pay the price of the crimies against Divine law by imperfect humans. Think medieval ‘whipping boy’ and his role as the king’s child friend. You couldn’t hit the potential future king, but the kid’s crimes had to be addressed and punished, hence a beloved friend being whipped in his stead. With Human beings, God’s son volunteered to be the blood sacrifice for once and for all to pay the price of breaking divine laws. The King’s word cannot be changed, but it can be fulfilled.

        • cp

          Nothing in the bible happened literally, you have to be insane to believe it.

          • DesertSun59

            Correct. It’s pure mythology.

          • Guns N Rosaries

            And YOU are the fount of wisdom and truth? Oh “oracle of oracles,” where have you been for the last 2000 years?!?
            Give me the “words of wisdom” so that I may know truly the meaning of “faith, hope and charity.”
            Oh “sage of sages,” show us the lineage and tradition you have inherited from the “wise ones” for the last 6000 years, as I am quite sure that such wisdom is well recorded, consistent, completely traceable, verifiable, constant, always edifying, and always available to the spiritually starving masses.

          • Alan

            The Bible has been re-written several times and even religious scholars have stated this to be fact…even Christmas’s date was changed to be closer to the winter solstice in order to bring the Pagans into the fold…just like when they added the word homosexual to the Bible since the word didn’t exist till 1892…The amount of books that have been removed from the Bible to what we have now is staggering…what are the hiding? The Truth???

          • Guns N Rosaries

            Yes, protestant heretics HAVE re-written the Bible several dozen times in their attempt to justify their heretical sect’s existence.
            The Feast of the Birth of Jesus Christ was moved exactly as you say…….but if you are implying that Christianity at the same time absorbed pagan rituals and beliefs, then I must say that is untrue.

          • Prasad Elumalai

            I am not a Christian but I have read the Holy Bible.. I definitely know Jesus or His father didn’t write the Holy Bible.. Everything was a written record by men who followed him.. You must know about difference the perception of a God himself and the perception of a fellow human follower.. Atleast guess it.. Then Of Course there is an undeniable flaw in writing itself right? Every writing in almost every religion is authored by men and that too the followers.. Maybe its best to throw the Bible off.. And Ask Jesus to be your Sole Guide.. That’s a best way because according to current century and changes, if there was ever written an another Bible, it would definitely not be the same in many ways as the Old one.. But Jesus could Guide you according to current situations.. For this you don’t even have to go to a Church or Read the Bible, just stay open and be receptive to His guidance… Most of these talks would not be necessary because the guidance would be Tailor-made to your life, there is nothing to compare it with…

          • Guns N Rosaries

            Rubbish. I’m quite sure St. Paul wasn’t thinking of you when he wrote 1 Timothy 3 v 15……

          • Guns N Rosaries

            Nothing written by cp happened literally, you have to be insane to believe it.

        • Guns N Rosaries

          He came to earth for more than that…..He came to earth to physically demonstrate that God loves man…..so much so that God assumed flesh. He also brought the New Covenant, which was the perfection of the imperfect Old Covenant. He also instituted His Church, appointed His Shepherd to govern in His stead, provide His Body as a means of spiritual nourishment, and also provide an unbloody remembrance of His Sacrifice on the Cross…….the continual remembrance of His Sacrifice is the ONLY thing that prevents the Father from smiting the earth. Sadly, we are nearing the time when the perpetual Sacrifice will cease……..and then comes the smiting.

          • god

            If your god loves ‘man’, then there is nothing to worry about…but you seem very confused – love one minute, ‘smiting’ the next…

          • Guns N Rosaries

            The worst kind of person usually grows up in one of two ways; he was allowed to do whatever he wanted without punishment, or he was beaten for every little thing he did wrong (the punishment didn’t fit the “crime); there is a middle in that measured punishment is need to teach the offending individual that they CANNOT do whatever they want and at the same time it is a punishment commensurate with “crime,” thus not breaking the individual’s spirit
            Or you can look at it this way; if we reward the evildoer, then what reward do we give to the law-abider? You can’t reward them both…….

          • god

            If you personally have a need for punishment, then you shall have it in your life 🙂

          • Guns N Rosaries

            Your punishment will far outweigh my punishment.

      • Skyrider

        There is no forgiveness in Heaven nor by God as none is needed. We are doing the best we can in a very negative environment which is allowed to exist by God for our experience and growth. God experiences through us and these experiences allow us to grow into an ever greater capacity to love. The more we love, the greater our connection to God. It’s really very simple, although of course there is so much more. There is always more to learn, always another step.

        • Guns N Rosaries

          That is not what Jesus Christ taught….you are in gross error and you will not see God in the Face when you enter into eternity.

          • John
          • Guns N Rosaries

            I havn’t mentioned the word “piety,” nor have I tried to claim myself as being pious…..I only repeat what the Church has taught and holds inviolate…..this is the truth of the matter.

          • John

            If it looks like a christian

            If it sounds like a christian

            If it acts like a christian

            Its a christian

            Hitler was a Christian

          • Guns N Rosaries

            If Hitler were a Christian he would have raised a holy army (like St. Joan of Arc), carried the banners of Jesus and Mary, and would have then proceeded to victory…..destroying the talmudists, the freemasons, and the communists……no, Hitler was lukewarm at best, and a lapsed Catholic at worse.

          • Guns N Rosaries

            By baptism yes, but even a Christian can become a castaway like St. Paul was worried HE could become in 1 Corinthians 9 v 27.

        • Wally Mollysdaddy

          Hello Skyrider,
          It is not possible to dissuade someone’s religious belief with just
          words. What is required here is the holy spirit experience. If a soul
          or a conscious human requests some clarity on spirituality and
          asks (or prays) to the Boss, he will have an experience, or maybe
          more than one experience to convince him that the only TRUTH
          is LOVE. In the absolute Universe TRUTH CANNOT EXIST
          WITHOUT THE LIE. We make our own Truths by Loving or
          Not Loving what is in our PRESENT.

      • Anon John

        Sorry to contribute so late to the discussion, but I feel the need to challenge your main premise here, that a “Crime against an Infinite Being requires an infinite punishment”. If that is your core reasoning here, than by that logic, a person who commits any crime against another person should be punished for the length of an average lifespan… Is that something you would advocate?

        If you want to say that an infinite being is different to a finite being, therefore the analogy doesn’t hold – then you would need to admit that this concept of a crime against an infinite being requiring infinite punishment is literally just a pretty sentence that sounds logical at first glance, is not specifically stated in the Bible and really came from your own opinion rather than a substantiated source.

        By the way, i’m not saying that hell doesn’t exist, or isn’t eternal. I am simply stating that I believe this particular line of reasoning is flawed and should not be used as an argument for the theory that hell is eternal. What are your thoughts?

    • Yeah. One of the hells was reading your gibberish about there being many hells.

      • L Garou

        Thank you for your help in defining this.
        I hope you recover, soon.

    • Skyrider

      Exactly. Well said Garou.

  • Richard Wahd

    (SARCASM ALERT) I’ve been born again! But my guilty conscience said to square up my unpaid bar tab. So ya know what, I took two fifty dollar bills to the neighborhood bar, I bellied up to the bar – talked to the bartender – and she said “Good boy! Anything else?” And I told her “I’ve been born again!” – she said “That sounds like a cause for celebration!” So I selected Have A Cigar on the jukebox while she lined up a Yaeger bomb and a cold 12 ouncer. Then I felt so good about sharing- I started buying rounds for others, Well, next thing I know – I’m running up another hefty bar tab… But I’ve been born again!! And as I watched that long neck roll around on the cheap industrial grade carpentry – I could only think how symbolic – not that I was out $3.75 but what it mean to me was like sands… ticking through the hourglass… and as everybody knows – so are the days of our lives.

  • kansascity online

    Don’t believe him people. The priest is trying to control you according to his blindness. Tell the judge that you do not believe in jail after found guilty of a crime. The law is just to put you in jail. You know it and I know it.

  • I’m amazed that I found this article immediately after posting my comment on “Can Religion Be An Addiction” by Valerie Tarico. What all amazed me was the fact that I was raised as an Episcopalian and that my comment made reference to my experience “in hell” consequential to my internalized conditioning of outer authority in “The Church” after I had left the Episcopal religion. Very serendipitous!

  • Shirley Willis

    A BISHOP saying ‘there’s no such thing as Heaven and Hell’?! The world has truly gone insane. Can you say anti-Christ agenda?! At the least……

    • wakingtimes

      Oh my. You think the Bishop is working for the anti-christ?

      • Micah Geni

        That will depend on what perception a person has of the “Christ”. 🙂

        If Christ is Dogma, then Anti-Dogma would become Anti-Christ

        • Blessed R. Chzmaker

          Jesus taught in parables in direct opposition to dogma.

      • Shirley Willis

        No, not necessarily. What I AM saying was his comments were very “Anti-Christian” and THAT plays into the perception. IF he isn’t intentionally working for the anti-Christ (which I believe is the Catholic Church, anyway, to be honest) he certainly is unintentionally saying what the devil would WANT him to say. Either way, these are dangerous statements.

        • So, only those who believe in hell are Christians? Ya’ll must be a fun bunch.

        • EmmettGrogan

          My understanding of “god” is not the same as yours, nor does it have to be. We all have a different understanding of god, and they don’t all agree. Why do you have to judge someone for not believing the entire Christian dogma? Many preachers tell their congregation they should hate gays, would you go along with that just because your preacher said so? This is directly against Jesus’ teaching, who told us to love and not judge. You are judging this minister for his views.

        • Veri Tas

          Isn’t the all important point the belief in a creative force?

    • EmmettGrogan

      The man is expressing his well-thought-out opinion. He doesn’t have to believe every single thing he’s told by the church. He isnt an order follower, blindly being obedient. What’s going on with you that you can’t see that?

      • WhiteEagle

        Which reminds me, the Order = the Jesuits. They called themselves that.

    • Julie Allen

      The “CHURCH” is the anti-Christ.

      • WhiteEagle

        The fallen church is the Harlot. The woman on the beast is the Church. Rome is the city of 7 hills. The Pope is the Man with 666 as a symbol, also mentioned as the ‘little horn’ of Daniel, which uproots three kings ..which one pope did, to create the papal states.

    • John
  • Zee Ashtanga
    • Shirley Willis

      Then you’re NOT talking to God…

      • Lemming Ferdinand

        Boom!

      • John Wilson

        And I suppose you talk to him every day, huh?

        • Shirley Willis

          Always and forever! God Bless!

    • WhiteEagle

      Look again, this time for a bit longer and with eyes wide open.

  • DON W

    He evidently doesn’t understand what being born of the spirit “born again” means.

    • xyz

      And u do. My, my…..

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