The Scientific Proof of the Existence of the Soul

February 27, 2013 | By | 48 Replies More

Debbie West, Guest Writer
Waking Times

Michael Hathaway, author of 10 books on psychic development, past lives, regression, hypnosis and spirituality, and a board certified Past Life Regression Therapist is one of the most respected hypnotists in the country. He published a book entitled, “It’s Time to Simplify Your Soul’s Code”, an easy how-to guide for discovering our unique special purpose and to enrich our life experience by delving into the aspects of higher self and soul contracts.

In this book, Mr. Hathaway emphasizes the source energy of the loving universe as a means to connect to our divine purpose as incarnated souls. He brilliantly describes the Soul’s Code as the unique divine purpose each of us brings to our existence and that which we seek to manifest our spiritual growth. The time we spend here on Project Earth in the restraints of space/time and ego are designed as a learning tool, and we are joined together with earthly and other worldly beings, representing our Project Team. To simplify our soul code, we need only trust and believe in a universal energy that tunes us into our own divine pattern. This energy is the embodiment of unconditional love of both our self and others.

The Soul is perhaps one of the most misunderstood and highly controversial topics for mankind to ponder. Soul expands across all aspects of human activity, from science to religion to spirituality to death and salvation, the complexity of the soul is a subject we examine with wonder and awe, yet without sure conviction.

Psychology is defined as “the study of the soul” yet doctors have trouble defining the Soul. Webster’s defines soul as “the immortal essence, animating principle, or an activating cause of an individual life”. But medical science is divided between the soul/mind and the brain/consciousness as the essence of the human psyche. In 1901 Dr. Duncan MacDougall determined that the soul weighed 21 grams by weighing dying patient’s right before and right after death.

If it’s true that the soul lives after death of the physical body and is immortal, than we also have to examine reincarnation, which incidentally was banned by the Council of Nice in 553 AD.  In the most compelling scientific evidence to date validating reincarnation, Dr. Ian Stevenson documented over 3,000 cases of children who remembered their past lives. In his study the children’s stories were validated, yet even this irrefutable proof is viewed with conjecture by modern neuroscientists.

Except one, Dr. Eben Alexander, a Harvard educated neurosurgeon, who after his own near death experience now supports that the soul is separate from the human body and is a true entity, as outlined in his book Proof Of Heaven. His organization Eternea is the frontier science that will identify that we exist after physical death eternally. The Soul is our essence, and, as Edgar Cayce says, we are spiritual beings having a human experience not human beings having a spiritual experience. The soul’s evolution is always towards God and away from material gains. The Soul has sensations and thoughts, desires and beliefs, and performs intentional actions.

As our bodies wear out, the soul seeks periods of rest and reflection. Supporters of alien origin and existence propose that the soul differentiates the human race from other species and is highly regarded by other civilizations. Yet even while the other species look upon our gift of the soul with envy and admiration, our science and religions relentlessly diminish the knowledge of how to use the soul as our opportunity to grow and to align with the creator. The Wingmakers describe human beings as a race of “soul carriers” and propose that this century will be the discovery of the scientific proof of the existence of the Soul or the Grand Portal. Further, that the soul is a fragment of original source or light that we are all a part of and that our human experience is a small part of our existence and, in reality, is a search for unity.

Michael Hathaway’s books help to address the complexity of past lives and soul integration, as well as tuning in to our psychic abilities as we transform into a new, advanced being. This new race is described by Edgar Cayce as the fifth root race, a highly evolved people who are born with a greater knowing of the workings of the universe. As we focus on our spiritual growth, aspects of our direct link to the greater universe deepens and our third eye senses things that awaken us to our true nature of our earth assignment.

About the Author

Deborah West worked in corporate public relations and media for over 20 years and is currently a freelancer, reporting on a wide variety of topics including disclosure, ancient and multidimensional civilizations, the the shift in humanity’s consciousness and brings truthful reporting to topics ranging from healthcare to energy.  She writes a column called Lost Knowledge  on   and a weekly radio show called Lost Knowledge on Tuesdays 3-5pm CST.

For more information on Michael Hathaway and his books go to: www.whitemountainhypnosiscenter.com

This article is offered under Creative Commons license. It’s okay to republish it anywhere as long as attribution bio is included and all links remain intact.

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Comments (48)

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  1. halderon says:

    “scientific evidence of the soul.” I understood the hypotheses and now came the testing-more than one test with reliability and validity coefficients- how exiting. Instead, I get non-sense from physics (who never win the lottery) and some other non-experts who’s only claim to fame is that they wrote books and some neuroscientist who is “convinced” that the Soul stays with Dorothy in Oz. No Proof is no proof,and at what point does science play other than watching. In short, you have to have a testable hypotheses,and the results have to be the same for everybody-with chance being 1 out of 100,000 in the area of proof. You have none. You have no science-you have conjecture. And that dear author, means you have nothing.

    • usor says:

      What’s wrong with the existential and experiential evidence of thousands of people? Nothing is wrong with that. What the “scientific establishment” will say about that is that it is anecdotal and thus not evidence at all but wait a minute! All the evidence ever collected by scientists who observe lab’ equipment and record their measurements are doing the same thing. Their measurements are based on their interpretations of what they see in front of their eyes. They just don’t want to hear it, that is why most of them are atheists, they prefer to remain in the darkness than move into the light where all their filthy and rotten sin is exposed. They want their sin, they love their sin. But it is just not worth it, sin is death – the wages of sin is death – God.

    • jeff says:

      wrong…remove the concrete surrounding your mind.

    • Anonymous says:

      I have problems with this article. It proves nothing. For a good study we either have to use a verificationist approach or a falsification approach as motivated by the famous Karl Popper. I am not saying the soul does not exist in my mind. I am saying just conducting a dialogue and writing a narratife on it does not confirm its presence. Karl Popper argues with his methodology, ‘Prove it does not exist. If the soul is a form of energy, we can argue that energy does not die – a law of physics it may convert but it does not die. One neurosurgeons experience is not evidence based research. more has to go into this research. It links to consciousness. Consciousness exists apart from the human body. Is the soul linked to it May be.

      • Alan says:

        According to the Vedas consciousness is the energy of the soul, so where ever their is consciousness their is a soul present. It’s the difference between a living body and a dead body. When the soul leaves the body at death the body is inert, unconscious, dead, the body returns to its elements and the soul is carried by the subtle body to its destination which is determined by the desires and karma of the living entity. It is the soul that energises and shapes the body and mind. The soul is the pure spiritual self that devolves to Earth because he,she wants to be God. God being merciful creates the whole material cosmos so that the deluded selves can strut about in their laughable attempt to be the centre of everything. God wants us to come back to the blissful spiritual world where we belong rather than suffering and rotting in the material world.

  2. dimitri says:

    Halderon: you really get ticked off when you get ticked off. All you have to understand is that Michael Hathaway’s strong suit is hypnosis. Then it becomes pretty much a sure thing that he’s fooling about 90% of the people all the time.

  3. George says:

    It is appointed for man but once to die,then the Judgment

  4. Tick Tok says:

    To those mortals that cannot expand their physical minds…you are all trapped in a reality, created by others who, are also trapped because THEY cannot expand their physical minds. How boring you people are since, all you can deal with is stupidity and monotony.

  5. Ed Ward, MD says:

    There is no ‘scientific evidence’ in this article. The closest scientific evidence has come to a ‘soul’ is:

    “The 1st Law of Thermodyamics simply states that energy can be neither created nor destroyed (conservation of energy). Thus power generation processes and energy sources actually involve conversion of energy from one form to another, rather than creation of energy from nothing.”

  6. SteveB says:

    Hey Halderon, only when you ‘believe’ that proof is possible will it be made known to you, and waiting for ‘experts’ to prove it to you is abrogating Your responsibility to find it for yourself.
    The word SOUL in my experience is an acronym for Source Of Unconditional Love and will leave your ‘body’ when the time comes – whether you believe it or Not.
    Proof is abundant to those of us who are not afraid to put it to the test.

  7. sorensen says:

    “Soul” is self. We do not have a “soul” we are soul.
    Soul is not anything material, hence it is “divine”.
    God loves “soul, it’s creation, that is why it is eternal and always survives.
    Soul needs a vehicle In the material world in order to gain experiences. If it looses it’s body it simply returns to it’s previous existence.

  8. walt says:

    Are all souls connected to the unconditional love?
    Like the people who murder and rape children?
    Like the drug runners in Mexico who chop off heads and drag them through the streets?
    Do these people have souls? Are there good and evil souls?

    • sorensen says:

      Millions of incarnations has seen all souls at opposite sides of the coin of life. Soul is beyond good and evil and its apparent weakness on the road to strength is a necessary journey to god head.
      All souls are sustained by the Bani/Sound current/ECK….evil or good otherwise they would not exist!

    • Rosemont says:

      Your questions are answered by the subject of Consciousness which is beyond “Soul”. Consciousness is “all possibility”, and there are levels and stages, from fear, lust, greed, apathy, moderation, etc. — to love, cosmic (Christ/ Krishna, Buddha) consciousness, peace, etc. Also note fruit of the spirit and works of the flesh in bible writings.

      Wherever the Soul is resonating on the Consciousness scale will determine whether their self-expression is good or evil.

      • Spiritual Body or Physical Spirit?
        Bio Dark-Matter Chemistry & Your Invisible Doppelganger‏
        ISBN: 978-1-62006-182-4

        All sciences, including the most succesful theories such as quantum mechanics, is imperfect and incomplete affirming the finiteness and limitation of all human knowledge. The least perfect of all sciences are the biosciences, since what makes dead matter “bio” is the least known. It becomes all the more difficult, if not impossible, when about 95% of the universe is unknown as “dark-matter and dark energy”. Confining this dark side to astrophysics and galaxies alone to the exclusion of biophysics and the biosphere is unwarranted, especially in view of the inexplicable origin the ultra-weak biophotons, as well as the great taxonomic dependence by an order of magnitude of their emission rates/sq.cm/s.

        Where matter exits chemistry exists. Dark-matter is no exception. A durable (non-entropic) and invisible doppelganger identical to the visible entropic body (and coupled to it) is formed from the moment of conception. This body being non-electric can easily pass through any barrier- walls and doors- made of ordinary matter. That is materialism extraordinaire supplementing ordinary materialsism which by itself is obviously inadequate to explain human existence from the microhuman zygote to the fully grown adult where the undying information is a constant. There will be no experimental dark-matter chemistry laboratory, only ab initio computational chemistries, ultra-weak biophoton emission rates, perhaps detection/separation of monopoles in all live matter and investigations into “magnetricity”.

        There are many recent papers on neutrinos as monopoles and on how to modify Maxwell’s equations to accomodate monopoles. The masses of these particles entering into dark atoms and their dark dark chemistries in humans will be in the same ratios as the masses of the fermions in ordinary atoms and their chemistries. Magnetic polarities will not be any different than electric polarities with respect to chemical bond formations. All chemistry (chemical bond) is essentially a spin phenomenon. The rules of chemistry will be the same in both. The distribution of these dark-particles need not be the same in all species which seems to support the large taxonomic dependence of biophoton emission rates.

        Be good to your twin!

        Best regards

        Philip Benjamin, PhD

        ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

        References

        1. Philip Benjamin “Bio Dark-Matter Chemistry”, International Journal of Current Research and Reviews Vol 4 issue 20, 2012.

        2. Dark Chemistry & the Paranormal, WorldComp’10 Proceedings of the International Conference on Artificial Intelligence, Vol II,pp 633-39, July 12-15, 2010, CSREA Press, Las Vegas, NV. (Presented orally also

        on July 15 at 10 a.m).

        3. DARK CHEMISTRY & PARANORMAL PHENOMENA, International Journal of Applied Science &
        Computations, Vol. 17, No. 1 Pages 16 to 36, June 2010

        4. Dark Matter & Dark Chemistry NeuroQuantology September 2007, Vol 5 # 3,322-326.

        5. Dark Chemistry or Psychic Spin Pixel? NeuroQuantology, June 2007, Vol. 5 # 2, 197-204.

        6. Mind Matter, Noetic Journal Vol 4 # 4, 351-360, 2003[Nobelist Sir John Eccles Centennial Edition].

        7. http://biodarkmatter.webs.com

        8. Philip Benjamin http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A1=ind9807&L=quantum-mind

        9. “Spiritual Body or Physical Spirit? Your Invisible Doppelganger”. Sunbury Press. February 2013. ISBN: 978-1-62006-182-4

  9. mothman777 says:

    What you are referring to as the ‘soul’ that weighs 21 grams is in fact the subtle material body, and not the eternal living soul itself.

    If you study the book ‘The Astral Plane: Its Scenery, Inhabitants and Phenomena’ (Theosophical Manuals #5) by Bishop Charles Webster Leadbeater, you can read more about the temporal nature of that vehicle, and how the form of it can change. Some of the beliefs in that book differ from my own, but it is still a highly informative and revealing book.

    In the most advanced yogis, the subtle body progressively reduces, until just a pin point star is left visible, the naked soul, devoid of astral covering.

    The soul itself is written of as being suspended in a stream of prana within the anahata chakra, or heart chakra, of each being, being one ten thousandth the diameter of the size of a tip of a human hair in spatial dimension, each soul being the same size whether dwelling in the body of a microbe, or in the body of a material demigod, such as Lord Brahma, according to Vaishnava vedic philosophy, with just the gross physical body and subtle physical body (astral/mental bodies) having different potencies and spatial dimensions, one being extremely small, like a protozoan, for instance, and the other having sufficient sensitivity and mental equipment to know the mental and physical activities simultaneously of every single other being in the entire universe, there being an individual Lord Brahma material demigod, like a prime minister, being situated by divine arrangement in every individual universe, there being trillions of individual universes, emanating from the body of Lord Vishnu in His divine Yoga Nidra dream.

    By yoga methods, or by the use of herbs that give shamanistic experience by giving siddhis, according to the book Yoga Aphorisms of Patanjali, or mystical experiences, or by ‘spiritualism’, one can easily experience the reality that people survive beyond the existence of their material body, and that they have remarkably clear and perceptive sensory organs and mental faculties, and that they can manifest to you and communicate with you, and you can see that they exist independent of the possibility of mere mental hallucination on your part if you yourself are also free of your body, for instance by astral projection, or bilocation, though other siddhis exist that make astral projection unnecessary to confirm this reality.

    The question is whether or not the integrity of the substance of such a body is artificially contrived, as in the artificial manufacture of a ‘body of light’ by a ‘magician’, with which to traverse the astral and other subtle plains, such that such a body could be artificially sustained by drawing on life force from this plain, or from others, after their present gross physical body has disintegrated, or whether in fact such a body is sustained from above by a natural process by divine order, albeit in subtle material substance as a vehicle for the non-material tiny soul, or in some instances by a combination of the two methods, as a kind of morphogenetic field containing sensory organs and subtle brain that continues to facilitate sensitivity to this dimension of existence, and both methods are possible.

    Indeed some Indonesian villagers would have a resident discarnate spirit that they would encourage to dwell with them to protect their households against evil influences, and by their prayers possibly provide nourishment of the subtle material kind as well as their spiritual good wishes, which would help to sustain the external subtle bodily form of the spirit soul residing within that form, giving it further substance to maintain it’s integrity, though possibly such a spirit has it’s bodily integrity maintained by divine order beyond the necessity of of needing to be nourished by feeding it with prana energy, though no doubt, sheer loving affection will encourage such a travelling soul to stay with a household longer.

    The soul itself is immortal and can never disintegrate or be harmed in any way, originating as an expansion of Lord Krishna, the same quality of substance as He is, in the highmost spiritual dimension of Krishna Goloka, where all souls eventually return to when they wake up from this dream of Maya, after as many incarnations as they wish, as they have infinite free will to travel wherever they wish, in the dream of the material world, or wide awake in the spiritual world.

    All souls may again become fully aware of their true eternal forms and natures by dint of their constant association with their Lord God and communal Higher Self, who is like the sunshine is to the eyes, in this case facilitating multidimensional self-awareness of each and every soul who chooses to remain principally in the association of that Higher Self and Lord God, as their best friend for instance, or in many other types of relationship.

  10. alex says:

    * Hahahahahaha!…have you ever considered ‘stand-up’comedy??? That ‘Newageyfuzzy’…all tied up with an etherial bow, made my heart just go’flutter/flutter’-especially those two words…”soul contract”…im still cracking up…cheers

  11. ThomasT says:

    This and much, much more is clearly laid out in The Pleiadian Mission by psychologist Randolph Winters. The info comes from a race 15,000 years ahead of us in tech, and millions of years ahead spiritually. If you don’t accept this, that’s your problem. Leave alone those of us who have open minds and move forward. tens of thousands of us are already using their concentration techniques.

    • alex says:

      * the truth protects itself… by just simply being what it is…it doesn’t need a self appointed ‘gate-keeper’ to shake it’s prostelytizing finger at anyone…you obviously live in your head…cheers

  12. EV says:

    Read Chris Carter’s trilogy of books – esp. the third one (‘science and the afterlife experience’). There is scientific proof.

  13. CE waka says:

    What is “fifth root face?”

  14. annymous says:

    The contention is in and of itself nonsensical. To the ancient Greeks, who had conceived of the tripartite division of man into soma (body), psyche (soul) and nous (spirit) as found in the metaphysics of Aristotle, the existence of the soul was as self-evident as the existence of the “mind” is to us moderns who have to live with Descartes’s conflation of psyche and nous into this single concept. If one can deny the existence of the soul, or maintain that its existence or non-existence is susceptible to ‘scientific proof’, then one has failed miserably to understand the meaning of the word.

  15. Anonymous says:

    No one has ever pondered death and the soul more rationally and more pragmatically than Socrates as related by Plato. in Life we are as the flame of a candle. When extinquished, do we ask where did the flame go?

    • Anonymous says:

      The flame is transformed. It’s no longer visible and no longer effecting the environment. The energy is still released and is still in the air until it disappears. As an example, it is the law of this universe.

      Death is a force in nature. Time will come upon you for you to leave your body.

      Proof of a soul/host? There is one definite proof. It is on a personal level. It cannot be shared. Again, another law of this universe, of such things cannot be visibly proven. Very much alike when you have your computer WI-FI turned off. You must turn it on in order to connect to the internet. Correct?

      We all know we live by laws. In all things, there’s a law concerning it. Law of gravity, law of animation, and the law of life… etc.. even the law of love.

      Rules of your human existence comes into play when you are born. You follow these rules until the day you die.

      Otherwords, for me, life sucks.

    • Think further! says:

      Who lights the candle? There is always a Cause to everything. Ever thought about that?

      What lights up the Life in human being? Huh?

      Nothing comes out of Nothingness. It’s simple laws of physics. Scientists can only tell that the universe started out from an infinitely small point. The point was there. What was before it?
      God is something our science will never be able to explain. God has always been, and will always be there. And we all know Him, but our memories of have faded. One day it’ll all come rushing back to us.

  16. Anonymous says:

    “the soul differentiates the human race from other species and is highly regarded by other civilizations. Yet even while the other species look upon our gift of the soul with envy and admiration”…

    Is this another example of the “exceptionalism” that so often clouds thinking about ourselves clearly? For a species as special as we apparently think we are, we have certainly managed to make a mess out of our situation.

  17. izzy says:

    “the soul differentiates the human race from other species and is highly regarded by other civilizations. Yet even while the other species look upon our gift of the soul with envy and admiration”…

    Is this another example of the “exceptionalism” that so often clouds thinking about ourselves clearly? For a species as special as we apparently think we are, we have certainly managed to make a mess out of our situation.

  18. Memories of previous lives do not demonstrate the existence of the “soul”. The “soul” is a metaphysical concept created by the consciousness of the ‘thinker’ in response to the fear of death. According to the Revelations in the Quran, the Creator is the only Eternally-Existent. Any metaphysical “soul” which exists for eternity –eternity being understood as going both into the future as well as into the past–would be another ‘God’.

    Michael

    • mothman777 says:

      Your statement that ‘memory’ of past lives does not constitute evidence of the existence of the soul is quite correct.

      Like ‘remote viewing’, and access to memory through the Akashic record, you can have the phenomenon where a dozen people will have crystal clear memory of looking through the eyes of Napoleon or Cleopatra, or seeing parts of their lives, and then claim that in a past life, they WERE Napoleon or Cleopatra, and in fact, in evidence of this, one Rosicrucian society holds a ball every year, where members come dressed as the most famous person that they have memories of being in a past life, and regularly, many people turn up for the ball dressed as the same person, such as Cleopatra or Napoleon, and many, if not all of these, it follows, must in fact therefore be mistaken.

      In actuality, all physical matter, from the perspective of quantum physics, is actually non-particulate, whilst from another plane of perspective, individual atoms, molecules and bodies also exist.

      Spiritual matter though, does exist in the form of distinct individual particles, or souls, as if this were not so, our awareness would constantly flow as one undivided ocean of consciousness through all of nature passing constantly through millions of bodies and beyond, whilst our bodies would merely be hollow vessels through which an endless ocean of spiritual consciousnesses would flow, and we would be omnisentient, being aware of being everywhere all at once, but we are not, and our consciousness is limited to existing in one body, so the quantity of soul that inhabits each body is limited, is the same soul, and not constantly changing, or being replaced by another volume, as if it were, we would inhabit new bodies every moment, or, accepting the advaitist theory, be dwelling in all bodies all at once, and be one awareness beyond those bodies also.

      This means that any soul looking into that non-particulate and timeless mass of gross and subtle physical matter, can, from a certain perspective, survey any point in time or space, and easily become mistaken that they lived in a certain time as a particular person, when in fact, a billion other people could do exactly what they are doing and easily mistake themselves as having been that person, or perhaps ‘see’ that they will become that person in a future life.

      Regarding Islam, Sunni Islam differs from Shia Islam, as Sunni Islam accepts the eternal existence of many individual souls who existent with Allah as the eternal Godhead, whereas Shia Islam holds that, “In the end times, nought remains but the face of Allah”, believing that all souls merge into one soul.

      • Anonymous says:

        Well, words paint pictures and beliefs are powerful, so our belief can capture the soul and put that concept in a dictionary. Can we then act it out more appropriately or would a small child with a wordless experience of sounds senses and colors be closer not concerned of the definitions? You are what you believe has been offered but is that true?

        • mothman777 says:

          Mmm, spirit soul is a different dimension to the restricted perception afforded by the limited material senses and brain, and to properly begin to address the infinite nature of the qualities of the each soul requires firstly a multidimensional percept of an infinitude of eternal qualities of each soul by an awakened individual, and a language sufficient in subtlety to properly express the nature of the soul.

          The Sanskrit language is just such a language, accepted as being spoken even by souls in the spiritual world, so some spoken language does have it’s valid place with regard to being a proper medium by which to truly and accurately express eternal spiritual qualities of the soul on the spiritual plane itself, with the eternal language being of the same quality of the eternal soul itself.

          And, yes, a child can perceive that wordlessly, but is that any advantage? And what does the inability to articulate the nature of their percept tell us except that they have not yet got the grasp of their multi-dimensional intellectual faculties, that graduate in subtlety well beyond mere gross material consideration, there being 32 chakras above the human head in this material dimension according to vedic knowledge, each affording a more subtle type of intellectual faculty and dimensional percept.

          The liberated naked spirit souls themselves, resident in the highest spiritual dimension, Vaikuntha, or Sach Khand, as the Sikhs call it, are totally free from the governing limitation of any mayic exterior body any longer, or indeed any exterior spiritual body, and practice all communication between themselves and their communal Oversoul, Krishna, in a totally direct manner, soul substance directly touching soul substance, there being no void or other substance existing between all souls that might separate them, except the formless spiritual atmosphere which is still an aspect of Krishna Himself, existing between personal forms of the individual souls and Krishna, much like space filled with air exists between several people standing in this dimension, but there, everything is totally alive.

          The eternal transcendental spiritual realm of Vaikuntha is in fact entirely Krishna Himself, though with the highest personal form of Krishna existing within formless aspects of Himself in that dimension, acting as a ‘tuning fork’, and personal companion of each and every individual soul there, as best friend, spouse, child, etc., to enable the highest degree of self-cognitive faculty within each soul who centres their love and affection upon Him, with the formless aspects of Krishna, such as the atmosphere, the spiritual sky, the ground, and the lakes, rivers and seas, also being the divine Oversoul and Lord God Himself too, but giving a different degree of self-cognition to each soul, the personal form of Krishna Himself giving the highest of all degrees of spiritual awakening and pleasure.

          Words can, nonetheless be used quite accurately to indicate the quality of the soul, depending on the level of spiritual understanding of both the speaker and the listener, and that also depends on the concept and quality of what we think of as ‘language’.

          As you hint at, wordless knowledge of the nature of the thing in itself is possible, yet the Sanskrit concept of language combines meaning, or concept, with entity itself, including all the qualities of that entity, so that the name of a soul, like Krishna, is non-different in quality to that entity.

          Yet that soul in itself, Krishna, accepted in Vedic understanding as the Lord of all the gods, actually has no name, but, His qualities, upon being perceived, are described, and thus, the quality of being the most attractive of all entities in the entire cosmos, the Sanskrit term for that quality being ‘Krishna’, is recognized in Him, and is accepted as his ‘name’ nonetheless, that quality being non-different to His ‘name’, and that name thus being non-different to the individual.

          All souls are expansions of Krishna, and are originally and ultimately demigods, whether temporarily asleep under maya as atheists in this world, or wide awake in their eternally liberated form and nature back in their true home, the spiritual world, from which they originated, without any beginning in time, that reality being eternally self-existent without having had any need to evolve, or come into existence, it is what it is, and that is the true reality, an infinite expanse of pure consciousness, comprised of an infinite number of individuals centred around their Lord God.

          Just as all entities in this material world need the sun to be able to see, so all souls need Krishna to be spiritually aware of their eternal spiritual self nature, He being in effect the greater part of their self-cognitive faculty.

          So, briefly, a ‘living’ language like Sanskrit affords a different dimension of expression, all the way into the spiritual realm without limit, Sanskrit being Krishna Himself, passing through and between us all, and when you return to Vaikuntha, that is the language everyone speaks there, according to accounts of yogis who have travelled there and back.

  19. sorensen says:

    The proof of soul is just being aware of being aware without the intrusion of thought. This state is common in the(yoga)meditative state, when thought ceases and awareness is still there….a state of pure consciousness!
    The myth that when thoughts stop awareness ceases is old school. Thoughts are mainly brain activity and mechanically operating out of a program set in motion by the past memories.
    Soul can move into other states/worlds through spiritual exercises beyond the astral plane without the astral body through direct soul projection.
    Try this: chant the word HU (hew or Hue) while centering on the 3 eye -Pineal gland- this will raise your consciousness beyond the physical and depending on your spiritual development, you may even experience out of body states….or soul travel!

    • mothman777 says:

      But then, you must surely be consciously considering, even wordlessly, that you are conscious without words, and that is still a form of thinking.

      Thinking goes right on into the spiritual world, though the meditators who consider that all mental and physical activity is necessarily going to lead to painful experience, because that has been their overall experience in the dream-like material world, may then seek to renounce all physical and mental incarnation in astral bodies etc., and even erroneously consider that any further existence of the individual soul consciousness is undesirable because of this, though in fact, the natural eternal state of consciousness of the unembodied soul, in Vaikuntha, is entirely happy and without any anxiety or suffering when the soul chooses to remain in the association of Krishna.

      They can, they claim, end up in various states of ‘white light’, where they say that all activity ceases, though some hold that in fact the mental plane of activity is exchanged for a type of highly active restful spiritual awareness there.

      When a Boddhisattva from the Buddha state decides to return to Earth to help people, surely there has been some thought of some kind there, wordless or not.

      Even in the white light Brahman consciousness, where a soul feels that it has become one with the vastness of the cosmos, and has no further need to think, it is still the case that a soul can still realize that in fact they have not truly ever merged there at all, and not attained their highest potential of happiness, this being sensed also by Krishna, who exists in the heart of all souls eternally.

      Sensing that feeling of unfulfillment of the soul resting in the white light, Krishna releases that soul from their waking dream in the white light, and they then return to another incarnation in the material world, to complete their evolution from that perspective.

      Or such a soul can even avoid that material reincarnation altogether, by passing straight on from the Brahman white light to an even higher state in Vaikuntha, or Sach Khand, where there is no anxiety at all, yet individual thought of the liberated unembodied soul recommences on the verbal level there in pure spirit.

      That is the teaching of the Vaishnava and Sikh schools of thought anyway.

      • sorensen says:

        There is a state of Samadhi or the beginning of cosmic consciousness where thought ceases completely and one is left with “intention” only. Having done my share of meditation and the practice of “Siddhis”- yogic powers- which is basically involves learning to think from the subtle level approaching the absolute. I would not endorse meditation as a spiritual path.
        Since Soul is individualized through millions of incarnations meditation tends to defeat the individual!
        Proper Contemplative spiritual exercises and “initiations” will tune one into the Sound Current – Bani, the word of god- and the light so that the individual soul seeking to evolve obtains the tools -light and sound- to progress spiritually into the higher planes beyond the negative lower worlds.
        Brahm, Krishna and all the eastern deities and religions are located on the mental plane below the Soul Plane and all are ruled by the Kal – Kali or Kal Niranjan the ruler of the negative reality or the lower worlds.
        In my opinion One has to be careful with the word “spiritual” since these worlds are not true spiritual worlds. The beginning of the true spiritual worlds takes place on the “soul plane” which is ruled by Sat Nam. There are a number very high spiritual planes above that.
        Most high spiritual paths teach that the lower worlds are a trap for soul including the body itself and the only escape is through “soul travel” with the help of a true spiritual master as a guide.
        In my belief suffering is one aspect but eventually soul becomes bored with the lower worlds and longs for the return to its true home above the mental plane and physical plane.

        • mothman777 says:

          @ sorensen (March 7, 2013 at 2:27 pm)

          Thankyou for your further reply. I am glad that you realize the truth of the cosmic spiritual reality being comprised of a great number of individual souls.

          I agree with your last understanding also, that we only move on from the material plane when we become bored with it, having exhausted every possible means of trying to gain pleasure from the various worlds of this material universe, and after having never been truly satisfied.

          True spiritual happiness is very difficult to experience here due to spiritual matter becoming progressively more and more diffuse the lower we travel down from the absolute spiritual plane of Vaikuntha, down through the impersonal Brahman white light, down through the 14 different material grades of planets in this material universe, from Brahmaloka downwards to Patalaloka, that we travel through in our search for pleasure.

          In the spiritual world, the spiritual substance of the personality of Godhead, Sat Nam, or whatever other name one may choose for this Supreme Being, gives total spiritual awakenment and pleasure to the unlimited number of souls who dwell there.

          The definition of Krishna actually means ‘all attractive’ on the absolute plane in Sanskrit, and only one cosmic-sized soul can possibly possess that unique quality, attracting all souls throughout infinity, so Krishna can never be a limited being confined to the mental plane of mayic derivation, so I think you are mistaken on that point.

          Where you may be correct on that point however, is where you encounter fakes on the mental plane, astral plane and physical plane, who egotistically and falsely claim to be the Supreme Lord and Cosmic Oversoul Krishna, and vedic literature informs us that there are many fraudulent souls of criminal nature and even genuinely self-deluded individuals who will try to exploit others by trying to make them believe that they are Krishna, and many of these people even try to fool other souls here that just as they themselves have become God, so their students can also, usually in return for money, fame and power.

          The real Krishna can never be confined to one body, or be confined to any material mental or other material plane, as the spatial volume of His soul extends throughout all infinity without any limit, endlessly, and the entire substance of the Brahman white light and all material planets and subtle material planes of consciousness are derived from His own substance, with individual souls simply dwelling within that matrix.

          The Supreme Lord Krishna has incarnated here, most recently as Chaitanya Mahaprabhu in 1486 in Mayapur in West Bengal, and revealed Himself on those occasions as being that same infinite soul known as Krishna, though of course, one can disbelieve the accounts of those witnesses if one wishes.

          After having being bombarded with so many testimonies as to the Godhead of so many frauds, one can hardly be blamed, as the frauds imitate the words of the genuine seers very expertly.

          The Godhead of Krishna is for each individual to experience directly and validate by that.

          However, Allah, Jesus, and Yahweh are man-made demonic Kali Yuga concepts of God that are totally lacking in any genuine spiritual quality, indicated by their stated torturing of all others for eternity in boiling excrement, boiling water and fire etc., which of course is pure evil psychosis.

        • mothman777 says:

          ps @ sorensen

          I see you use the Sikh terms Bani and Sat Nam, and fully appreciate that Sikhism is divided into two main schools, just as Hinduism is, one centred around the idea that all souls ultimately merge into one, after having devolved into many individuals from that postulated original state of being one single infinite soul, whilst the other school holds that the Supreme Being is eternally comprised of many individual parts without any beginning.

          The personalist school accepts that the Godhead exists with an infinite number of subjective souls, who can come to enjoy the same potencies and pleasure as the Godhead Himself/Herself through association, sometimes, in rare instances, even merging to become one soul with the Godhead also, similar in that respect to the opposing advaitist theory.

          Guru Nanak and Lord Krishna Chaitanya Mahaprabhu both descended from Vaikuntha (Sach Khand), contemporaneously, Chaitanya as the Supreme Lord in a confidential manner, revealing His true infinite nature only to a few very intimate devotees, with Guru Nanak as an eternally liberated jiva soul who came to this world to guide others to love and serve the true Sat Guru of all.

          That Sat Guru of Guru Nanak is named many times throughout the living Sikh scripture, Sri Guru Granth Sahib, as Vishnu, Krishna, Govinda, Gopala etc., with the advice being included that one should always chant the Holy Names of God.

          So the Sikhs of the personalist persuasion at least do not consider the Supreme Lord Krishna to be some limited being, as your source of teaching mistakenly does.

          As recorded by both Vaishnava and Sikh poets and historians, Guru Nanak and Lord Chaitanya both danced and chanted the Hare Krishna Maha Mantra together, with both agreeing that in essence, their faiths were identical in nature.

          • sorensen says:

            As I understand it: Indeed! The lower worlds are inundated by frauds, charlatans, and meaning full but false Masters! That is why it is important, in my view, to address the questions of true enlightenment, true path’s and true masters with brutal honesty and an open heart always on the ready to move forward to new horizons….spiritually speaking!
            In my earlier questioning days it became apparent that “pleasure” was a two headed coin: one of pleasure and the other of fear. Because of pleasure we erect walls within ourselves and we become attached to our pleasure and fear loosing our objects of pleasure.( J.Krishnamurti) Pleasure does not exist in the higher worlds, only light and joy, since that would necessitate its opposite.
            It is critically important, I feel, to develop a yardstick with which one can judge a true and ultimate teaching.
            In my view the true worlds and planes are cataloged here: These planes are not just brought out of a hat by ECKANKAR but are a part of vast spiritual history and teaching of many other high paths.
            Sat Nam (true name)is the first true manifestation of the impersonal god SUGMAD -ocean of love and mercy.
            Nothing is proved, everything is perceive/experienced by the individual(soul)through soul travel or movement into these planes, being there is the only answer and spiritual exercises have to replace the intellect if one desires to gain understanding and true knowledge. One has to become the uncommon traveler since the time worn paths of ‘culture driven’religions have led us to a dead end!

          • sorensen says:

            The planes above the lower worlds: Atma Lok(soul plane), Alakh Lok, Alaya Lok, Hukkikat Lok, Agam Lok, Anami Lok.

            Or go to web address: eckankar. org /Images /godworlds.pdf

  20. Debbie West says:

    I am posting a reply to the question “What is the fifth root face”. I apologize but somehow this appeared as a typo and should have said “fifth root Race”. The Fifth Root Race is a more evolved earth species that will live consciously in the 4th and 5th dimension during the Age of Aquarius that we are entering now. The earth has experienced 4 cycles of evolution according to Edgar Cayce and is entering the 5th cycle as of Dec 21, 2012, the cycles are approximately every 75,000 years. The harvest of the souls who evolve into the higher dimension occurs at the end of each cycle. Those who don’t “graduate” the 3rd dimension which relates more to lower chakras will repeat. Each soul finds their own path to higher consciousness, there is no right or wrong, no judgement only unconditional love. Loving ourselves and others is the key to evolving in consciousness, as defined in the Law of One and many ancient texts. The Shift we are experiencing in consciousness on the 3rd dimensional earth is that of entering into the higher dimension as an evolved race. Unfortunately some can only view the earth in 3rd dimension right now when in fact there are many other dimensions of reality. Our psyche is opening now with new chakras and newly activated DNA, all part of our cosmic destiny to evolve. For more on this feel free to listen to my radio show: http://the-illuminati-network.com/?page_id=1893 or my articles posted at http://www.tnetimes.com/contributor/deborah_west/92/

  21. mothman777 says:

    @ sorensen:
    March 9, 2013 at 4:44 pm

    As Sat Nam means true name, then the quality of the highest absolute cannot be nirguna, ‘without qualities’, or else that immanent Supreme Being would have no name.

    In truth, that Supreme is another person, just as each individual soul is a person.

    I know the definitions of the Advaita philosophy that you speak of, but the incarnation of Lord Krishna, the golden avatar Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, converted many Advaitist philosophers to Vaishnava philosophy, which confirms the eternal transcendental existence of countless individual souls around a central nexus, Krishna, otherwise known as Govinda, and His consort Radharani.

    The Advaitist Brahman light expanse does exist, but certain faculties are dormant within each jiva in that state, whilst they dwell in a waking dream of immanence themselves, with the Lord sharing His immanence with them, but to a limited degree.

    On a more advanced level, a fully awakened individual jiva soul can indeed actually merge into Krishna as one soul, within the eternal form of Krishna as He truly is.

    But in the Brahman light version of that experience, the soul only experiences the Lord dovetailing His experience with them to a limited degree, such that the jiva soul really thinks they actually have lost all individuality and actually merged in Krishna, but they have not in fact done so at that level, and they never could, as the Brahman light is not the true nature of the Lord, but a less dense revelation of the Lord in comparison to His true eternal highest nature as Divine Purusha in Goloka.

    The jiva souls never know themselves fully at that level, or the Lord in His true nature, so they could never renounce what they did not know, and could never become what they did not know and had never been.

    The jiva achieves his acme of self-cognizance in relationship with Krishna, Govinda, and not before.

    You will find the same truth reiterated in the scriptures known as the Katha and Kena Upanishads, where the eternal individuality of the jiva soul in eternal relationship with Krishna, Govinda, is clearly expressed as the highest objective reality.

    As the Supreme Lord is effectively the greater part of the faculties of each jiva, whilst being at the same time eternally distinct from each jiva, it being true that His presence is required to awaken the eternal forms and spiritual senses of each individual jiva, according to the philosophy of Achintya Bheda Bheda Tattva, then each jiva does not have full knowledge of the ultimate reality in the Brahman light, having chosen to rest for a while from all matters involving relations with other souls, whilst they seek to merge as one, also renouncing all activity of thoughts and senses.

    If you were originally one with infinity, that infinity being immanent consciousness as one, then you could never have had any individual inclination to be anything else, there would have been nothing else to cause you to individuate, and there would be nowhere for you to go except infinite Brahman white light if you had done, or anything else that might be able to cause you to break into some conception of individuality, away from the mass of the Brahman white light.

    There have never have been anything else in infinity to cause you to separate your awareness from that immanent oneness, as all of the oneness would have experienced itself as you, and you it, throughout the vastness of infinitude, and even if you could, you would be surrounded by nothing but an infinite expanse of spiritual Brahman white light.

    You cannot in reality attain to a state that you never existed as in the first place.

    The advaitist philosophy is erroneous, yet Krishna knows the desires of many to be done with all individuality, and because everyone is an expansion of Himself, He indulges their desires by letting them dream that they have become Him for a while in the Brahman white light, forgetting all individual responsibility.

    But the jivas do not know in that state that they are not fully awake, that Krishna exists beyond the white light and that the ultimate nature of Krishna is not the Brahman white light, that lesser spiritual absolute level being merely a line of demarcation between the material realm and the spiritual worlds, not actually existing within the full revelation of the spiritual world, Vaikuntha, itself.

    Krishna Chaitanya Mahaprabhu came 500 years ago to deliver that truth to lead jiva souls back to their eternal nature, perfectly liberated, beyond the limitations of the impersonal Brahman state, in which a jiva could never in truth lose their individuality at all, but merely thinks that they have.

    Having said that, in rare instances, some souls do actually end up merging their souls as one with Krishna, but not on the Brahman white light level, and in fact a higher pleasure for the entire cosmic body of all souls is ensured by the vast majority of individual jiva souls maintaining individuality anyway.

    In Madhura rasa, a jiva enjoys conjugal relationship with Krishna, Govinda, and this does not involve any form of sex, as there is no reproduction there, and the entire soul of both partners in that world is pure transcendental spiritual ecstasy, love, etc., so the relationship is one of exchanging transcendental love and affection.

    Madhura rasa, which incorporates all other rasas, including sarshti, permits each jiva soul to share the measure of pleasure and potency of Krishna on an equal level with Him.

    The soul cannot perceive it’s true nature in the Brahman white light, seeing only a dilute revelation there of the most transcendental eternal spiritual nature of Krishna, and thus of itself also, and that is why the jiva could never actually merge in that Brahman light as one, as the jiva soul does not know the ultimate nature of the Brahman light as it truly is, because ultimately, it is Krishna Himself, as all matter surrounding each individual is.

    When one can attain to levels of transcendental ecstasy, love and beauty like that, what is there to fear losing? Just because pleasure is short-lived in this material world, it does not follow that all pleasure is similar, and thus one should not judge prematurely.

    One may say that such and such a guru says that all such knowledge of Krishna is only fleeting, and therefore not as good as the constant state of consciousness of the Brahman white light. However, consciousness of the Brahman light and the supposed state of having merged in it as one cannot be maintained constantly in this world in any case itself, and the Brahman light consciousness theory is therefore revealed as lacking the very credentials implied as being in evidence by the Advaitist gurus.

    At least the Vaishnava and Sikh teaching gurus all admit that God alone is Sat Guru and the ultimate controller of this material world, it being comprised entirely of the substance of His own soul in truth, in the ultimate analysis, being revealed here as dream maya.

    If the Advaitist gurus were more in possession of the most objective transcendental knowledge of the Absolute, as being one with that Absolute on a constant basis, as they imply, and very often openly claim as fact, then why can they not act as omnipotent and stop all the wars, and immediately take everyone back into the Brahman white light as one soul?

    And they really should be able to do that if what they claim in their philosophy is really true, that we are all really God, or the Absolute in the Brahman white light conception, and that we have merely forgotten that we are that Absolute. If they are one with us, then they should be able to remember for us surely? But their suppositions are erroneous.

    But, no matter, if people still wish to dream for a while in the impersonal Brahman, they are perfectly free to do so, and Krishna will provide everything they need to enjoy that dream to the fullest, but the souls there are never truly awake as they could be on the true transcendental plane, and thus they never know the fullness of transcendental ecstasy, beauty and love that they could do in Vaikuntha in a relationship with Govinda.

    So why delay? Why not set a course for the fullest potential of happiness and freedom of your soul right now with Krishna, rather than dreaming for an indeterminate while in the impersonal formless Brahman light quite unnecessarily?

    Instead of following Advaitist philosophy, which cannot develop the ultimate potential of the soul, one can take the more valid words of other gurus such as Guru Nanak of the Sikhs, and the disciples of Lord Krishna Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, in such scriptures as Chaitanya Charitamrita, to validate the real nature of the true highest Absolute as Radha Govinda, as the nexus of a cosmic spiritual community of individual souls in Vaikuntha, the spiritual planets. That is the true origin of all souls, and the true ultimate destination of all souls also.

    Hare Krishna

  22. sorensen says:

    @ mothman777

    Each plane is unique so that the Astral(emotional plane)is different in quality to the mental plane. Similarly the Atma Plane (soul plane) is totally different than any part and all of the mental plane. It is not within Krishna’s, domain -the mental plane- to exert any influence on the plane above,the Atma Plane, and Sat Nam is actually the ruler of all planes below.
    If you look at the planes mentioned on my previous post you will see a number of planes above the soul plane and if you know that each of those planes has a ruler/god including the Anami Lok (sound HU)where the unknowable(intellectually), impersonal Ocean of love and mercy abides.
    Anything based on personality will eventually incarnate on the physical plane and exists only in the lower negative worlds below the soul plane.
    Bhram, Krishna the incarnation of vishnu and all the other deities of the Vedas exists mostly in the mental plane below the soul plane.
    This can all be verified through “soul travel” or ECKANKAR

    There really is no argument since all the deities actually do exist and are really part of a grand spiritual hierarchy that has been established by the SUGMAD (higest god).

  23. mothman777 says:

    I don’t think you know the truth of this really, as certainly, if you have the inclination to look elsewhere for enlightenment, other than the true Supreme Lord, Krishna, then Krishna likes you so much to enjoy that pastime that then He will give you an extremely complex mental process with which to delude yourself as much as you like, such as to make Krishna look lower than your preferred concept of the Supreme Absolute.

    ECKANKAR, as founded by Paul Twitchell in 1965, is another example of a man pretentiously trying to upstage a direct incarnation of a pure devotee from the spiritual sky, who is Guru Nanak, who kindly agreed to descend to this world 500 years ago to start the Sikh religion.

    Twitchell is also vainly attempting to undermine the literary incarnation of the Supreme Lord Krishna, Sri Guru Granth Sahib, by undermining it’s main message.

    What Twitchell is really doing is essentially NWO stuff, effectively acting as a NWO agent, to attempt to destroy the genuine understanding of the personal feature of the Supreme Lord Krishna as the highest feature of the Absolute. The demonic Judaic NWO plan is to infiltrate and subvert, or destroy by other means, all other religions so that Judaism can take over. Twitchell’s ‘work’, intentional or otherwise, merely serves and accelerates that dark purpose.

    I explained this matter earlier in the most objective manner; yet you still cannot provide a genuine spiritual argument to justifiably oppose Guru Nanak, who definitely acknowledged the personal feature of the Absolute, Krishna, as Supreme Lord, the highest aspect of the Absolute, above all others, this also being strongly emphasized throughout the entire Sri Guru Granth Sahib, which you and Twitchert strangely and completely ignore that essential main message essence of.

    I can thus presume with reasonable certainty that you have never read the Sri Guru Granth Sahib, or you would surely know this, as the Sri Guru Granth Sahib repeatedly recommends people to always be chanting the Holy Names of the Supreme Lord, Govinda, Gopala, Hari, Krishna and other of His Holy Names.

    It is spiritually useless and disruptive to the minds of genuine spiritual students for Twitchell to say what he has done.

    You must do further research on this, and when you do, you will find that what I said earlier is true, that Guru Nanak (who was, and is eternally a Vaishnava, or devotee of the Supreme Lord Krishna) danced and chanted the Hare Krishna Maha Mantra together with the Supreme Lord Chaitanya Mahaprabhu. They eternally share the same understanding on the highest Absolute plane.

    The spiritual name of Krishna actually describes Lord Krishna as the most attractive Being in all of infinity and eternity, and that quality is therefore unsurpassable, and cannot be possessed by a second. I have to say that Twitchell is a complete ignoramus to ignore the plainly stated essential meaning of the entire Sri Guru Granth Sahib, and twist it to suit his own needs.

    There is no genuine need for anyone to attempt to undermine the actual valid meaning of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib, which is held to be an incarnation of Krishna Himself. Since Twitchell has done that, he is a thick twerp, and I would advise you to seek a better teacher.

  24. sorensen says:

    I applaud the Sikhs in their choice of deities to worship. Sat Nam, the creator of souls, the only true personal god, created soul to be free of all chains of the lower worlds!
    The deities of the lower worlds below the soul plane are “reformers” whose main focus is to restore “righteousness” within the prison of the physical worlds. That is their mandate!
    In their spiritual disclosures and history of the many saints and groups these higher worlds have been cataloged and little if anything has ever been brought forward to disprove them!
    In 1965 Paul Twitchell founded ECKANKAR, which also endorses these planes and higher deities, in order to free soul from this physic and material prison. No amount of labeling, fear mongering or psychic attacks will ever disprove the existence of the higher worlds deities and planes.
    It is the view of Eckankar that soul needs the assistance of a “living master” in order to find its way via soul travel spiritually to its true home above the mental plane. Ancient texts and transcendent masters will not help you.
    Since Paul Twitchell has passed on, the new and present “Mahanta” or Eck (spiritual) Master is Harold Klemp.

    I have no dispute with anyone who does not believe the facts as I see them since soul is and has always been free to believe anything it wants.

    May the blessings be.

    • mothman777 says:

      “No amount of labeling, fear mongering or psychic attacks will ever disprove the existence of the higher worlds deities and planes.”

      Well, I have not been making any ‘psychic attacks’ on you, and would not know how to in any case, as I trust in Krishna to look over me, nor have I been ‘fear-mongering’, but I did call Twitchell a thick twerp, and he is (or was).

      Contrary to what you state, soul cannot be created, it is self-existing without any beginning, and is the true nature of eternal infinitude, an infinite expanse of pure consciousness that resonates at it’s highest level of self-awareness as eternal love, bliss, beauty, as a multitude of individual souls, who relate principally to one central soul, the Supreme Lord Krishna, whose infinite spatial dimension makes it impossible for Him to forget His true eternal nature, even though the jiva souls with smaller spatial dimensions are inclined to forget their eternal nature from time to time, so Govinda, (Krishna) exists as the central nexus, within whom and through whom all find their true eternal nature, and the true eternal nature of each other, Krishna uniquely possessing the ability to enable the highest standard of spiritual consciousness eternally for all, whenever they choose to turn to Him and renew their constitutional and eternal relationship with Him, Krishna being the divine standard bearer, or divine tuning fork so to speak.

      Yes, people are free to believe whatever they wish, but is is a duty to give people the highest truth at this time of Kali Yuga, as the world is in a terrible state due to the insanity of the spiritually ignorant leaders and their electorates. Without them having objective consciousness that only Krishna can give, they will carry on making terrible mistakes.

      By giving people false teachings, instructing them to turn away from Krishna, you and your ‘society’ are merely the destroyers of spiritual goodness in human society, creating a grave and very negative disturbance.

      There is no point at all in your society pretentiously referring to Sikhism, whilst blatantly and deliberately misinterpreting Sikhism.

      If your society cannot accept what Sikhism actually teaches, whilst continuing to refer to it, then what your society teaches is a deception.

      Also, it is arrogant to presume that someone can be transcendent to Krishna Himself and consider that one knows better, but that is an increasing phenomenon in today’s society in Kali Yuga, where people consider Krishna to be merely a man, or a concept, or a temporal ‘form’ to pass by in meditation on the way to ‘enlightenment’.

      What blessings can you or any other Godless person make, as they reject the true God, Krishna, and imagine their own ‘God’ to serve? What your society, ECKANKAR, practices by doing that, no matter how you paint it, is effectively atheism.

  25. JoeThePimpernel says:

    The only thing I know for sure is that science has no explanation for consciousness. The only science that even touches upon consciousness is quantum mechanics, where no event is independent of a conscious observer.

    Extrapolate that, and a conscious observer is required for anything in the universe to exist, including the universe itself.

    Consciousness == Soul

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