5 Reasons to Suspect Jesus Never Existed

August 27, 2014 | By | 87 Replies More

Jesus Christ1Valerie Tarico, AlterNet
Waking Times

A growing number of scholars are openly questioning or actively arguing against whether Jesus lived.

Most antiquities scholars think that the New Testament gospels are “mythologized history.” In other words, they think that around the start of the first century a controversial Jewish rabbi named Yeshua ben Yosef gathered a following and his life and teachings provided the seed that grew into Christianity.

At the same time, these scholars acknowledge that many Bible stories like the virgin birth, miracles, resurrection, and women at the tomb borrow and rework mythic themes that were common in the Ancient Near East, much the way that screenwriters base new movies on old familiar tropes or plot elements. In this view, a “historical Jesus” became mythologized.

For over 200 years, a wide ranging array of theologians and historians—most of them Christian—analyzed ancient texts, both those that made it into the Bible and those that didn’t, in attempts to excavate the man behind the myth. Several current or recent bestsellers take this approach, distilling the scholarship for a popular audience. Familiar titles include Zealot by Reza Aslan and How Jesus Became God by Bart Ehrman

But other scholars believe that the gospel stories are actually “historicized mythology.” In this view, those ancient mythic templates are themselves the kernel. They got filled in with names, places and other real world details as early sects of Jesus worship attempted to understand and defend the devotional traditions they had received.

The notion that Jesus never existed is a minority position. Of course it is! says David Fitzgerald, author of Nailed: Ten Christian Myths That Show Jesus Never Existed at AllFor centuries all serious scholars of Christianity were Christians themselves, and modern secular scholars lean heavily on the groundwork that they laid in collecting, preserving, and analyzing ancient texts. Even today most secular scholars come out of a religious background, and many operate by default under historical presumptions of their former faith.

Fitzgerald is an atheist speaker and writer, popular with secular students and community groups. The internet phenom, Zeitgeist the Movie introduced millions to some of the mythic roots of Christianity. But Zeitgeist and similar works contain known errors and oversimplifications that undermine their credibility. Fitzgerald seeks to correct that by giving young people interesting, accessible information that is grounded in accountable scholarship.

More academic arguments in support of the Jesus Myth theory can be found in the writings of Richard Carrier and Robert Price. Carrier, who has a Ph.D. in ancient history uses the tools of his trade to show, among other things, how Christianity might have gotten off the ground without a miracle. Price, by contrast, writes from the perspective of a theologian whose biblical scholarship ultimately formed the basis for his skepticism. It is interesting to note that some of the harshest debunkers of fringe Jesus myth theories like those from Zeitgeist or Joseph Atwill (who tries to argue that the Romans invented Jesus) are from serious Mythicists like Fitzgerald, Carrier and Price.

The arguments on both sides of this question—mythologized history or historicized mythology—fill volumes, and if anything the debate seems to be heating up rather than resolving. A growing number of scholars are openly questioning or actively arguing against Jesus’ historicity. Since many people, both Christian and not, find it surprising that this debate even exists—that credible scholars might think Jesus never existed—here are some of the key points that keep the doubts alive:

1. No first century secular evidence whatsoever exists to support the actuality of Yeshua ben Yosef.

In the words of Bart Ehrman:

“What sorts of things do pagan authors from the time of Jesus have to say about him? Nothing. As odd as it may seem, there is no mention of Jesus at all by any of his pagan contemporaries. There are no birth records, no trial transcripts, no death certificates; there are no expressions of interest, no heated slanders, no passing references – nothing. In fact, if we broaden our field of concern to the years after his death – even if we include the entire first century of the Common Era – there is not so much as a solitary reference to Jesus in any non-Christian, non-Jewish source of any kind. I should stress that we do have a large number of documents from the time – the writings of poets, philosophers, historians, scientists, and government officials, for example, not to mention the large collection of surviving inscriptions on stone and private letters and legal documents on papyrus. In none of this vast array of surviving writings is Jesus’ name ever so much as mentioned.” (How Jesus Became God pp. 56-57)

2. The earliest New Testament writers seem ignorant of the details of Jesus’ life, which become more crystalized in later texts.

Paul seems unaware of any virgin birth, for example. No wise men, no star in the east, no miracles. Historians have long puzzled over the “Silence of Paul” on the most basic biographical facts and teachings of Jesus. Paul fails to cite Jesus’ authority precisely when it would make his case. What’s more, he never calls the twelve apostles Jesus’ disciples; in fact, he never says Jesus HAD disciples –or a ministry, or did miracles, or gave teachings. He virtually refuses to disclose any other biographical detail, and the few cryptic hints he offers aren’t just vague, but contradict the gospels. The leaders of the early Christian movement in Jerusalem like Peter and James are supposedly Jesus’ own followers and family; but Paul dismisses them as nobodies and repeatedly opposes them for not being true Christians!

Liberal theologian Marcus Borg suggests that people read the books of the New Testament in chronological order to see how early Christianity unfolded. “Placing the Gospels after Paul makes it clear that as written documents they are not the source of early Christianity but its product. The Gospel — the good news — of and about Jesus existed before the Gospels. They are the products of early Christian communities several decades after Jesus’ historical life and tell us how those communities saw his significance in their historical context.”

3. Even the New Testament stories don’t claim to be first-hand accounts.

We now know that the four gospels were assigned the names of the apostles Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, not written by them. To make matter sketchier, the name designations happened sometime in second century, around 100 years or more after Christianity supposedly began. For a variety of reasons, the practice of pseudonymous writing was common at the time and many contemporary documents are “signed” by famous figures. The same is true of the New Testament epistles except for a handful of letters from Paul (6 out of 13) which are broadly thought to be genuine.  But even the gospel stories don’t actually say, “I was there.” Rather, they claim the existence of other witnesses, a phenomenon familiar to anyone who has heard the phrase, my aunt knew someone who . . . .

4. The gospels, our only accounts of a historical Jesus, contradict each other.

If you think you know the Jesus story pretty well, I suggest that you pause at this point to test yourself with the 20 question quiz at ExChristian.net.

The gospel of Mark is thought to be the earliest existing “life of Jesus,” and linguistic analysis suggests that Luke and Matthew both simply reworked Mark and added their own corrections and new material. But they contradict each other and, to an even greater degree contradict the much later gospel of John, because they were written with different objectives for different audiences. The incompatible Easter stories offer one example of how much the stories disagree.

5. Modern scholars who claim to have uncovered the real historical Jesus depict wildly different persons.

They include a cynic philosopher, charismatic Hasid, liberal Pharisee, conservative rabbi, Zealot revolutionary, nonviolent pacifist to borrow from a much longer list assembled by Price. In his words (pp. 15-16), “The historical Jesus (if there was one) might well have been a messianic king, or a progressive Pharisee, or a Galilean shaman, or a magus, or a Hellenistic sage.  But he cannot very well have been all of them at the same time.” John Dominic Crossan of the Jesus Seminar grumbles that “the stunning diversity is an academic embarrassment.”

For David Fitzgerald, these issues and more lead to a conclusion that he finds inescapable:

Jesus appears to be an effect, not a cause, of Christianity. Paul and the rest of the first generation of Christians searched the Septuagint translation of Hebrew scriptures to create a Mystery Faith for the Jews, complete with pagan rituals like a Lord’s Supper, Gnostic terms in his letters, and a personal savior god to rival those in their neighbors’ longstanding Egyptian, Persian, Hellenistic and Roman traditions.

In a soon-to-be-released follow up to Nailed, entitled Jesus: Mything in ActionFitzgerald argues that the many competing versions proposed by secular scholars are just as problematic as any “Jesus of Faith:” Even if one accepts that there was a real Jesus of Nazareth, the question has little practical meaning: Regardless of whether or not a first century rabbi called Yeshua ben Yosef lived, the “historical Jesus” figures so patiently excavated and re-assembled by secular scholars are themselves fictions.

We may never know for certain what put Christian history in motion. Only time (or perhaps time travel) will tell.

About the Author

Valerie Tarico is a psychologist and writer in Seattle, Washington and the founder of Wisdom Commons. She is the author of “Trusting Doubt: A Former Evangelical Looks at Old Beliefs in a New Light” and “Deas and Other Imaginings.” Her articles can be found at Awaypoint.Wordpress.com.

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Category: Culture, History, Ideas, Literature, Philosophy, Religion, Revolution

Comments (87)

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  1. Fire, Blood &Iron says:

    The truth that our Lord Jesus Christ is the Son of God is self evident, if you cannot see it I’m sorry, yet perhaps one day ye shall not only watch, but see too. All such talk does is seed discord among men and destroy the pillars of morality which enable us a fair and good life. Besides someone can play his game and take the place of the righteous and only God in people’s hearts with something that suits his interests and purpose. You dare call yourselves aware here, yet you cannot realise there is a curtain lowered upon yer eyes, per chance even worse than the so called sheeple. Right now the new world order globalists may be having a toast to you, as for your madness and your contribution to their cause. What side are you on, the one that fights for evil, or the one that fights for goodness?

    Pro Gloria et Libertatem

    • dimitri says:

      Prima facie proof of the efficacy of brain laundering propaganda. There is evidence of the improbability of all that is presented as “self evident” being in fact self evident.

      • Paul Tarsuss says:

        Those who deny the evidence of Christ, in point of fact, deny themselves.

        http://beforeitsnews.com/science-and-technology/2014/04/ancient-high-performance-electric-motors-discovered-that-are-still-in-production-2685290.html

        Reality is not at all what we’ve been misled to believe…

        And God’s Word told the end from the beginning all along.

        • Adolfo Araya says:

          There are several reasons how was Christ created by a group of clever ancient jews with the aim of create a new religion of followers of Jesus Christ and his concepts of humillation before the Authorities that at that moment were the Romans. Besides of that Christ has never be present before the call of the Crusades or the killings of Muhammad crossing Afrika and reaching Spain of people opposing him or the several wars of the Middle Ages or the Wars of napoleon or the WWI or WWII where precisely millions of jews were dead or the assainations of the actual jews in Isreal to the Palestinians. Jesus is no where to be found.

      • Michael C says:

        I’ve often wondered about that stuff about ”We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal,…”
        And from a bunch of slave owners too.

        • Robert Graf says:

          Not to mention “we the people” written by a group of overwhelmingly members of a secret society who met in private, sworn to a lifelong vow of silence about the proceedings of the convention that they authorized in violation of the charter granted to them by the continental congress.

          • Mick says:

            Ah yes Robert. Do go on!

            That means keep talking. I’d like to hear more actual histoy, rather than the myths taught in public (government) school.

    • Anonymous says:

      Various Churches of the Big Buck$$$ Papal Overlords has really set such a standard for morality, funding genocide and practicing and condoning pedophilia and being responsible for so many wars and cullings of the innocent who disapprove of their criminality. The condescension of the ‘Christian’ is evidence that the ‘religious movement’ have a multitude of hypocrisy and sin to absolve themselves of. its a miracle in itself how it has programmed and brain washed even relatively intelligent souls on this world and turned them into powerless morons as they give all their time and energy away to demonic impostors.

    • Anonymous says:

      Truth. Now THERE’s an interesting concept.

  2. Flagellum Tyrannis says:

    The truth that our Lord Jesus Christ is the Son of God is self evident. If you cannot see it I’m sorry, yet perhaps one day ye shall not only watch, but see too. These people you mention are but charltans willing to fill their pockets and drag you around, they ain’t worth the worms that ‘ll eat them when they are dead. All such talk does is seed discord among men and destroy the pillars of morality which enable us a fair and good life if we abide by them. Besides somebody can play his game and put something else in the place of our righteous and only God in people’s hearts to suit his interests and purpose as it please him, and play with poor men. You dare call yourselves aware here, yet you cannot see the curtain lowered upon your eyes, per chance in a condition even worse than the so called sheeple, for they might be played and tricked once and twice, but here deceit is played threefold, and you seem stuck in it. Right now the new world order globalists may be having a toast to you, as for the help and contribution to their cause. What is it you seek? What side are you on, the one that fights for good, or the one that fights for evil?

    Pro Gloria et Libertatem

  3. Diane Grudem says:

    The reason folks can’t find the historical Jesus is because his parents named him Esu Immanuel. He did exist and left an autobiography. The church has maintained the myth out of self-serving reasons. The grants for scholarship serve to keep the myth going. The romantic idea that he was a savior and he died on the cross are appealing to folks who can’t come to grips with their bad decisions and unhappy lives.
    He says in his autobiography that he left Judea for his safety and made his way to India where he stayed and completed his mission. The reason for his incarnation at that time was to break up the control that the Pharissees had on the population. He had no quarrel with the Romans. The Pharisses had come up from Egypt when the population became hostile to the Priests of Amun and they changed their name to Pharissee. They once again gained control through brutality of the religious followers. Through the prayers of these folks, he decided to incarnate to help break them free. The Pharissees could see that once again they needed to take their show on the road and they moved to Rome.
    Religion is big business. Unlodging the prevailing beliefs of any religion is dangerous.
    The name of his autobiography is The Talmud of Immanuel or one can find info in the Phoenix Journals.
    One cannot find the truth if one is only searching through the myths. (And getting paid to do it.)

  4. anna says:

    The theory that Jesus never existed at all has very little scholarly support. No matter how hard you try to fabricate an alternative reality, Jesus in mentioned in several historic texts as well as the jewish Talmud.

  5. Eric Wade says:

    To say that Jesus doesn’t exist is like saying a circle doesn’t exist.

    Do you have a circle? If I tell you I believe in circles, do you ask me who drew the first circle?

    Does it disprove the amazing complexity of the concept of a God beyond comprehension manifesting in a recognizable form for us to teach of love just because there is no toe-tagged corpse in a morgue?

    Can you also disprove that Abraham Lincoln was never a four year old because other four year olds never drew finger paintings of him?

    God by any name is omnipotent. He could replace all of the oxygen atoms in the universe with iron and then make their quarks spin backwards if he wanted to.

    But He didn’t want to. He wanted to reach out to mankind and give those who wanted a gift the best gift possible.

    Faith is a gift he give to mankind. Faith is the gift.

    If you don’t want to see God, the lack of a corpus for you to kick around doesn’t mean He isn’t here, it just means you don’t want to see Him.

    Jesus didn’t live and die 2000 years ago. Jesus has always lived and will never die.

    • Don Wilson says:

      Circles do not exist except as a mathematical object. You cannot draw a true circle. Firstly, they would be invisible but also impossible to create.

  6. Daniel Tremblay says:

    IDIOT! In a day or two! You never existed. One stupid article that even atheists won’t remember.

  7. Daniel Tremblay says:

    Unsubscribing!

    • In5D says:

      Good! Then you won’t see my response….lol

      The truth hurts, especially when we’ve been lied to for so long. Everyone wants to believe in a savior that will come and save us but like just about everything else we’ve learned, it’s all a lie.

      Religion = subservience, control and conformity…. the same template as every government. How’s that working for you so far?

      It’s a lot easier to believe and defend a 1600+ year old lie than to seek the real truth behind the Jesus story. It’s blatantly apparent that you are not ready for the truth. I hope you follow the false light back through the tunnel upon leaving this incarnation because you’re gonna need more lifetimes to learn the truth. You’re never gonna get it in this lifetime.

      Sorry to be blunt, but like I said, sometimes the truth hurts. I truly hope you wake up but I seriously doubt that you will.

  8. In5D says:

    Astrology was well known amongst every civilization and many knew that they were transitioning from a battle-ladened Age of Aries into the upcoming Age of Pisces. A 400 year old prophecy told how a messiah would be born and how he would lead the Hebrews out of persecution. At the time, each religious cult hoped that this messiah would be from their religion. In order to be uncontested amongst their rival religions, one cult created their own messiah story and based it on knowledge from 100 years in the past so nobody would be able to contradict their story. In their own minds, they believed that this would give their story credibility versus the other messiah-like characters who were based on mythology.

    Initially, their messiah was based on a man named Yeshua ben Yoseph (which translated means “Joshua, son of Joseph”). Yeshua was believed to have lived approximately 100 years before the creation of Jesus and evaded prosecution by the governing Hebrew body by fleeing to France with his wife, Mary Magdalene and their daughter. Over 100 years after Yeshua’s death, this particular messiah cult added supernatural powers to the Yeshua character, based on Mithra, Osiris and Horus. In order to make their cult more appealing, they added the belief that Yeshua died for your sins and that all anyone needed to do was to accept him as their messiah.

    At this point in time, there were several other religious cults vying for ultimate power. The emperor of this time period, Constantine, fought his way into power through death and deception, so he was eager to bring aboard a messiah figure who would forgive him of all of his sins through the deaths he was responsible for on his way to becoming emperor. By the year 312 CE, the Yeshua story had the backing of the Roman Empire, but there were numerous other Yeshua cults that divided them all. In the year 325 CE, Constantine brought together a meeting called the Council of Nicea, which was comprised of all of the leaders from the various Yeshua cults in order to unify their story into one religion which would rival any other major religon. Yeshua’s name was changed to Jesus Christ, with “Christ” meaning the annointed one. Jesus’ first name is simply the English translation of Yeshua, which in Greek, is Iesous.

    The Library of Alexandria held all of the Gnostic, philosophy and religious texts from previous generations. By the end of that particular century, all of these texts were destroyed under the auspices of emperor Theodosius, so there were no other records to corroborate how the Yeshua story was fabricated into the story of Jesus.

    http://www.in5d.com/10-christ-like-figures-who-predate-jesus.html

    Lastly, if Jesus was so amazing while performing these “miracles” then why didn’t anyone write about him while he was allegedly alive? Granted, people were illiterate back then but surely ONE person could have painted one of his miracles BEFORE the meeting of the Council of Nicea, where the fictitious Jesus was created.

    • Comrade Freedom says:

      You think you know everything yet you know nothing. Pfff. You and your ilk are most pathetic and reckless. What is said by you is proclaimed as the only holy truth and if is not accepted as such you mock and insult recklessly. Perhaps as most people in this accursed society, you got tired of things that are called “old” and replaced em with something which you call new, though being truly nothing and of no purpose. And then you proclaim yerselves kings of truth and exalt, and laugh at whom does not agree. Yet the truth is far from you, for unable to realize the truth that evil breeds in you already and chain of slavery is already setting around your neck. The misinformation you mention serves just that purpose, to make people stray away from truth; the false trinities you mention are but a mocking and trick of the devil. But still you believe to become a living god with “gnostic&new age knowledge”. Too bad you won’t wake from your dreams to see your own fall. All you are capable of doing is to mess up the lives of those whom do the grave mistake to listen such cheap talk. Your ways are foul, devoid of morality and justice and produce only chaos. Now go and preach immorality until we sew the rope and raise the gallows. And don’t worry, we’ll bring your NWO friends as well. Would be a sad sight to hang alone…

      • The Devil says:

        Please look at your own comment and read it like it was not written by you. Barring the “gnostic & new age” quotation, your response is a typical fundamentalism retort which contains only venomous spewage of digust and nothing of any substance. You scream JESUS like the other retards scream ALLAH Ackbar, or ZEUS forbid Mohamed. The TWO most populous nations on the planet in their highest echelons are literally laughing their asses off at the joke known as Western Religion, aka Abrahamic Religion..

  9. Victor Gagnon says:

    Good article, by the way.
    The expression comes to mind about “you only know what you know” and that includes myself.
    This means that the knowledge you have is all the knowledge you know. Examples would be computers in this day and age. Computers can only give you the memory they have. They don’t create knowledge they simply retrieve the knowledge created by the person who inputs that knowledge. In other words we do not know everything there is to know as we are all still learning. I have said it before that if you think you know everything than consider yourself to be ignorant not stupid just ignorant which is the lack of knowledge. I would consider myself ignorant because I do not know everything there is to know but I always wish to learn more. How can one consider any decision in his or her life without acquiring more knowledge.
    Consider that those of you who are stuck in your religions are stuck in your own box of knowledge and cannot and will not look outside the box, (FEAR) and that box was created from the day you where born by your Parents, relatives, church, culture, your DNA all the genetics from your line of relatives. What if everything you where taught was a lie? Now I am not here to make anyone wrong I am here to simply make my statement. To be self expressed and we should allow everyone to have their opinions as in these above replies. I acknowledge all opinions.
    Just look if you can at all the wars in the past and now and even the present day and most wars are religion based or maybe also culture based but culture can also be defined as religious. When we cannot be open minded then the expression”I am right and you are wrong and I will kill for questioning me comes to mind.” Creates HATRED!!!
    Don’t you think its time we open our minds and learn to teach each other instead of hating each other because we do not think alike and we never will.
    Just another man’s opinion.
    cheers

  10. We the Sheeple says:

    Whether Jesus existed is irrelevant in the larger picture of humanity. For one, are any of us alive today alive or at least fully conscious of being alive during the purported time of Jesus? How do any of us truly know from actual experience that Jesus existed? What any of us is limited to is a belief, a perception. And just because there are writings/texts/scrolls/books and the like available, none of us have direct experience of that time. Further, we are subjected to the personal perceptions and interpretations of those who may have been alive at the time or who eventually wrote oral traditions and stories down that we have today.

    However, what is far more important is the message that is conveyed through the writings (of most religious texts). They may all be boiled down to essentially one word: love. Love of the Self, love of the physical body, love of nature, love of all forms of life, love of the Earth and love of that which may exist beyond the Earth. Essentially, these messages were helping us to remember who we truly are.

    It is important to understand that humanity was in the grip of a dysfunctional sense of self 2,000 years ago that was rife with fear of lack, expressed as hostility and mistrust and driven by a compelling need for control and power that manifested throughout much of this part of the world as intense suffering.

    Unfortunately though, the perspectives of many religions is to foster a belief amongst their followers that there is a higher power or supreme deity that is a personification as well as an entity that seems to have ultimate control over all things. This emphasizes that each of us is incapable of governing ourselves and we must therefore abdicate our personal responsibility to such higher powers or the religious leaders of that particular faith. It is both a byproduct of the dysfunctional sense of self and a tool that others who have greater fears than ourselves use to perpetuate illusional fear for all of humanity for generations.

    Religion as it has evolved is unnecessary. It separates us from each other, it disempowers us, it panders to the dysfunctional sense of Self, and ultimately perpetuates suffering. We are inherently empowered to heal ourselves and to live in harmony with all of humanity, all of life and the Earth itself.

  11. Dominic says:

    In the beginning man made GOD, then the problems started

  12. Paul W of Stamford says:

    Another proof that Jesus never existed is the fact that so many in this world, the majority of this world even, believe in his existence. Honestly, since when is the majority of humans intelligent enough to see truth even when it hits them smack in the nose hard enough to break it?

  13. Tyron Parsons says:

    FACT-There are over 20,000 texts FOUND from all over the region during first century AD.

    FACT- here are 3 source, all 2 secular, one “Jewish”, besides those contained and testified to in the Gospels.

    The Description of Publius Lentullus
    The letter from Pontius Pilate to Tiberius Caesar
    “The Archko Volume”

    http://www.thenazareneway.com/likeness_of_our_saviour.htm

    The R1b Genetic Marker has been traced by atheistic scientists from Egypt (Tut’s genetics) to modern day Israel when it shoots as far east as India/China- then up into Russia, through the Caucasion Mountains, around both the Black and Caspian seas, fooding into Europe proper in mass between 600 BC and around 200 AD. This route of the 12 tribes of Israel after being captured by the Assyrians between 745 and 721 BC is collaberated by archeological, lingustic, ancient historical records, Greek Scriptures and now unwittingly by atheistic scientists. Only a small remnant of Judah, Benjamin and Levi remained in the land with one portion of the House of David only to be carried away to Babylon and return 70 years later.

    The R1b genetic marker is between a 50% and 99.6 match to ONLY Western European peoples. The so called “Jews” are from Esau (maternal remnant of impostor Judaites called Sephardics today) and the Ashkenaz of Genesis 10:3 (Asiatic peoples of Japeth). These people who have not mixed with Europeans carry NO linkage at ALL to ancient Hebrews, Israelites, Judaites of Jacob-Israel.

    Why do I bring this up? Because these “Jesus didn’t exist” crowd are full of (bleep). They don’t even understand scriptures nor history and if they do, they are LYING. If one used their critieria on say Cesaer, or George Washington or practically any historical figure, they wouldn’t have “existed” either.

    • E says:

      This is the best comment on this thread.

    • Tish says:

      You must not understand what hearsay is, which is what your first two ‘sources’ are.

      The interesting thing about the Archko Volume is the Rev who compiled it claims he had access to the Vatican Archives, which are obviously not open to the public. Their access is very limited and the reality is, there’s no proof that this Rev actually accessed these documents he claims to have read. Therefore, the authenticity of his claims – like so many others – cannot be verified. Unfortunately you’re using straw mans to make your points.

  14. Jacko says:

    I find the story of Jesus, as explained by Christians, to be quite disturbing. Specifically, the part where the so-called “God-the father” so loved humans that he sent his ONLY “son” to be sacrificed for the sake of humanity. I am a real-life father. I would NEVER sacrifice either of my sons, no matter how much I “loved” someone. Completely out of the question. I would, however, sacrifice MYSELF, if it was clear to bring a great change in the world. But NEVER one of my own children. THAT action of the so-called “God-the-father is a sign of narcissism of the greatest order and COWARDICE. It is recorded in Genesis (don’t know where but have read it) that this so-called “God” created humans to worship him – talk about narcissism.
    Christians are all too quick to claim that if you do not believe then so-called satan has you. Well if, according to the bible, god created all beings, and ultimately has control over all creation, then “he” either really fu%$ed up on that one or has the ultimate say and control over this “devil”.
    I have lost all respect for any notion of a “God” as described in the bible. I have NO belief in this so-called “God” whatsoever ever since my youngest son was born…. but that is for another time.

    I will acknowledge something much greater than myself, that created me, but then maybe it’s just the laws of nature but not a “someone”.

  15. FireHorse says:

    Jesus ‘The Christ’ (a title, not his name; Christos is Greek and means ‘King’) did, indeed, ‘exist’ only not in the way he has been portrayed. He was born in 6 BC, under Roman occupation of his land. He was from the Saul/David/Solomon line and his parents were well connected. Religious practices and customs of that time have been twisted completely out of shape. He and his parents were known as ‘Nozrim’ (biblical Nazarenes or Nazarite) which is a shortened Hebrew word meaning ‘Keepers of the Covenant’ (the Ark), a designation of the people who lived at Qumran where the Dead Sea Scrolls were located. He was NOT from Nazareth. There was also no ‘virgin’ birth. The Hebrew word ‘almah’ is frequently mistranslated as ‘virgin’. Due to his parents not following Nozrim customs properly, priests gave Jesus an official birthday of September when he was actually born in March. Thirty six years later, he married Mary Magdalene (‘Mary’ is also a title meaning high ranking priestess within their faith). Jesus’ father’s name was not Joseph. It was Zebedee. ‘Joseph’ is a title, as well…it means next in line to the Davidic kingly line. This title was passed on to Jesus’ brother John, with his official title being ‘Joseph of Arimathea’. Jesus did not die on the cross (and certainly not for our ‘sins’) but, was taken down by his followers. He took three days to recover and then he had to leave Palestine when news of his survival got out. After that, he went to other lands. His brother John protected his wife and son (yes, Jesus, Jr.) and they moved to Southern France (Magdalene pregnant with her first daughter) and settled in Carcassonne. Jesus made his way to Carcassone and fathered a second daughter. In 70 AD, the Romans sacked Jerusalem and the tribes of Israel scattered. Many traveled to France. That community eventually became the Cathars.

    Constantine created a new religion to unite the crumbling Roman Empire…the Catholic Christian Church, catholic meaning ‘applying to all men’. The new church needed a ‘savior’ to sell to the masses. Jesus became their savior and his image was altered (he was not tall or pale or ‘white’ looking). Roman historian, Joseph Flavius, described him as such:
    “[...]about 5’4″, dark skin, hunch backed, with a long face, long nose and meeting eyebrows. [...]scanty hair, parting in the middle and an underdeveloped beard.” Then, a new book, which eventually became the New Testament, was created. The Gospel of Thomas was removed and, up until the 600s, there were references to reincarnation. And, the big one, the suppression of Jesus’ marriage to Magdalene and his children. His children were of the royal bloodline and a threat to the church.

    Jesus died, as a priest/king, in Palestine in 64 AD.

    The above are excerpts from “Planet Earth: The Universe’s Experiment” published 2003 and, from “The Human Soul: Universal Soul 2″ published 2007, by Chris Thomas
    http://www.thechristhomasfiles.com

    • Bob says:

      ‘There was also no ‘virgin’ birth. The Hebrew word ‘almah’ is frequently mistranslated as ‘virgin’’
      The mistranslating of the word Almah was done by the Jews in order to attempt to dismiss the truth of this being fullfilled.The old testament texts clearly stated that it was to be a Virgin birth.
      The early Christian writings call them out for this blatant altering of the texts in Their bastarized masoretic texts.
      As the early Christian writers stated, WHAT sign would it be for a ‘young maiden ‘to bare a child ???? , which is the nonsense of the corrupted text that the Jews and now the atheists and Moslems wish to make others believe.
      The truth can still be found in the Septuagint version of the old testament which was actually translated brom Hebrew into Greek by a team of 70 Jews sent to Alexandria Egypt to do this job for the Greek emperor who was residing there and wanting the old testament in Greek for his newly created massive library. The Jewish scholars of the time [ aprox 200 years before Jesus time ] , accomplished the translation and it was accepted at that time even back in Jerusalem, but was later rejected by the Jews because it contained scripture that was fullfilled by Jesus. In order to negate the fullfilled prophecy, they re-wrote the old scripture and changed the text from ‘ Virgin ‘ To ‘ young maiden ‘

    • Bob says:

      You stated – “The Gospel of Thomas was removed”
      The So Called gospel of Thomas was NEVER a gospel, it was a fake and it was known as a fake spurious writing and rejected by the Christians at the time of its writing.

      • FireHorse says:

        Bob, you are still operating within Christian dogma. You may protest all you like…

        What I posted, above, are excerpts from two of Chris Thomas’ books (he has written 11, spanning 13 years). This man is a Psychic Healer and Akashic Reader, much like Edgar Cayce, only Cayce had to go into a trance and channel. Chris does not.

        Jesus’ existence and the description of his life & his people are recorded in the Akashic. If you are unfamiliar with the Akashic or Chris Thomas or even Edgar Cayce, please do some research.

        I will close with one final thing that is recorded in the Akashic. Many Christians believe that there will be a second coming of ‘Christ’. He came, first, as a lamb. He will return as a lion. The soul/consciousness that was Jesus The Christ HAS returned…and left, again. He returned as Yasser Arafat…a man fighting his land’s occupation.

        RELIGION is nothing more than an effective prison. Rise above it.

  16. farang says:

    “Carrier, who has a Ph.D. in ancient history”….. BFD: all that means is he “stuck to the conventional wisdom” and got his piece of paper he paid dearly for saying he is smart. Mythology is not confined to PhD interpretations.

    I’ve been “interpreting” (reading them all) for over 47 years. I think I ‘know a little.”

    Yeshua ben Yosef=Jesus son of Joseph. Yes, that is his name. No, “Joseph” wasn’t a “poor carpenter.” Yes, “Mary”(sp) was his mother’s name.

    I know EXACTLY where to look to “find” the biblical/ historical “Jesus.” Others have already pointed straight to him….yet silly articles like this still appear.

    And even that “Jesus” is not the original archetype “savior.”

    There is no easy answer to this question, because it is not specified WHICH “Jesus” are we talking about. The one @ the year 1 AD? That is easy, who was the “King of the Jews” in year 1 AD? See, how easy was that??? Point to a year YOU THINK “Jesus” lived, then look to see who is the “King of the Jews” then. Got it? Good, you’re as smart as a PhD. Smarter: you got to listen to farang.

    The reason the ORIGINAL “Jesus” can’t be found in the late BC-early AD era, is that it is long after this myth formed.

    Guess what? The Egyptian Narmer Palette shows “The Messiah” arriving in Egypt: betcha no one here is intelligent enough to see it. 100% of Egyptologists get it 100% incorrect. “Narmer” is NOT “a name” it MEANS NAME. Nama. But, if it DID mean the name “Narmer?” That is an abbreviation, and still doesn’t change the fact it represents “The Messiah Arriving” in Egypt.

    Again: using “conventional sources”…it is easy to see “Jesus” myth comes from Egypt.

    99.99999% of the population think “Jesus” came from “Jews.” Without ever wondering where “Jews” came from……

    This is all an illusion, folks. The history you have been taught is tainted, the “PhDs in history” mean very little if interpreted by the willingly dogmatic. If you only knew the Truth.

    I could tell you the truths I have discovered, but the disbelief of seeing the REAL would startle you into rejecting it without assessment. Cognative Dissonance and 24/7 msm propaganda has you under it’s SPELL.

    I wish I knew how to break that spell….the best I can do is lead you towards the REAL.

    “Jesus” is Ye’shuah. YaShiva. The “Queen of Sheba” is the Queen of Shiva. Hittite god “TaeS(h)ub is Tae (King) Shub/Shiva.

    Yeshuah is Tut. His Hittite cousin was Buddha. Here is the image of Tut being wrapped by Cohen/Kohannim Amen priests. Here is image of his cousin, the Buddha.

    THIS IS THE HOLY GRAIL.
    1. Tut, after being murdered by Panhesy, the evil Priest of the Aten
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gundestrup_cauldron#mediaviewer/File:Detail_2_from_Gundestrupkarret.jpg

    2. Siddartha Gautama Buddha, Tut’s cousin.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gundestrup_cauldron#mediaviewer/File:Gundestrup_antlered_figure.jpg

    The PhD “experts” will tell you this is not possible: Tut and Buddha lived in completely different eras, separated by @700-800 years.

    Farang says “Ionian Greeks” aka Yona/Yadu/Huna Brahma (Abram) Indo-Aryan tribes created “Dark Ages” wherever they gained control of historys’ records. They still do, to this day.

    That “dagger” that Tut is buried with has a VERY FAMOUS name. Seems it was forged from a meteor….making it a “Celestial Weapon.” In other words…..

    PULLED FROM A STONE.

    Oh, did I forget to tell you? Tut was the grandson of KING ARTA.

  17. juan says:

    Perhaps the author should prove he / she exists.

  18. truthseekerharrison says:

    Are you sure you don’t work for the NWO? Sounds like you are spewing their bull crap. They want to destroy Christianity. Guess you are just any slave to the Zio Freaks.

  19. Right... says:

    You know… this article the information in this articles has been well debunked? That an increasing number of scholars are not questioning what you claim and, as a matter of fact, scholars USED to make these claims at the turn of the century… all, now, well debunked. No pre-Christian cult or myth bears any resemblance to Christs life at all and everyone that does is conclusively *post-Christian*. Price and Carrier are an embarrassment, I mean Carriers debate with Craig was… just him getting slaughtered. We have less historical evidence for most people in history than we do Jesus… The same exact types and methods are used to confirm them as Jesus… Perhaps we should throw Homer out of history, after all there is less reliable historical data to suggest he was real than Jesus. This author is disgusting, stupid and boring.

  20. Bob says:

    The author of this article stated – “The leaders of the early Christian movement in Jerusalem like Peter and James are supposedly Jesus’ own followers and family; but Paul dismisses them as nobodies and repeatedly opposes them for not being true Christians ”
    Pure bilge, when confronting those who insisted that Christians needed to be circumsized, what did Paul do ?? he took the matter straight to the Apostles in Jerusalem to get their decision on the matter. Not only did he accept their authority by doing this, but those in Jerusalem sent a letter and men of their group along with Paul in order to prove that he had their approval in the matter

  21. angel says:

    May i share an article i have read about the real Biblical Jesus that will truly destroy the teachings of Christianity, Islam and even Judaism:

    http://www.thename.ph/thename/revelations/realjesus-en.html

    Please be advised that this Bible revelation is not promulgated to promote a new religion but simply to enlighten the readers. The readers must use credible thinking and common sense. Whether the reader accepts it or not is his or her own decision. What is important is we have shared with you this revelation.

  22. Bob says:

    The auther of this article said -’ Paul fails to cite Jesus’ authority precisely when it would make his case.’
    Paul certainly Does cite Jesus authority:
    Acts 22:10
    And I said, What shall I do, Lord? And the Lord said unto me, Arise, and go into Damascus; and there it shall be told thee of all things which are appointed for thee to do.

    and here;
    Acts 9:19 And when he had received meat, he was strengthened. Then was Saul certain days with the disciples which were at Damascus.
    20 And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God.

  23. Bob says:

    The auther of this article stated – “We now know that the four gospels were assigned the names of the apostles Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, not written by them. ”
    Totally untrue – the early Christian writers tell us the exact opposite , Matthew was written for the Jews in their language by Matthew, Mark was Peters translator and wrote down what he heard Peter preaching in Rome, Luke was Pauls translator and travelling companion who wrote down what he saw during his travels, and the gospel of John was written by the Apostle John.

  24. Bob says:

    The author of this article stated – “Jesus appears to be an effect, not a cause, of Christianity.”
    Not the cause ??
    Paul wrote -1 Corinthians 1:23
    But we preach Christ crucified,

    Acts 2:36
    Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

  25. Fred says:

    To be seriously rich and powerful you need to start a cult and this was as true 2000 years ago as it is today. A successful cult has to deliver on its promises if the believers are going to keep on giving it money. You therefore need a god whose promises are never to be delivered in this lifetime. A god in fact who says don’t resist, put up with whatever happens in this life time “turn the other cheek” and I will give you eternal life after you are safely dead and can’t tell anyone the cult is a sham. You of course need some authority for you claims but 2000 years ago if you set up your holy man as someone from 100 years ago and some distance away there would be almost no one living who could go and check. Christianity fits that pattern perfectly and it obviously worked well considering the wealth and power of the church.

  26. Bob says:

    Bart Ehrman says – “there is not so much as a solitary reference to Jesus in any non-Christian, non-Jewish source of any kind”
    Look at how he is trying to direct this away from a very most important evidence of Jesus , the very Jews who were opposed to Him and the text of their book the Talmud. Can there be any greater evidence for His existance than the writing of those who demanded his death ?

  27. Tacitus says:

    The historian Cornelius Tacitus mentions Jesus’ execution in his The Annals of Rome. in circa 150AD, Tacitus had access to Roman court docos that no longer exist. Jesus, the man, existed. Thats for sure. I don’t believe he was divine, but that he existed IS a fact imo.

    • Farmer Bob says:

      For as long as I can remember, there has been the assertion by “atheists” that there is no historical record of Jesus except
      in the Bible; therefore, Jesus didn’t exist. Silly me, I took them at their word, not that it made much difference. However, recently I was trying to determine whether Pontius Pilate even existed. And from the “Annals” of the Roman historian Tacitus, writing in about 115 AD, came these fortuitous two answers for one question:

      “Christus, from whom the name [Christian] had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus. . .”

      Where I come from the “extreme penalty” can only be “suffered” by
      someone who existed. Since Tacitus routinely demonstrated an extreme animus against Christianity, one could hardly accuse him of stoking the “myth” either. One might suspect the only actual fairytale here is the one promulgated by the atheists.

  28. Christians need to face facts says:

    For people who say they’re so concerned with the truth, they have a huge brick wall in front of their brains when it comes to their religion.

    It’s a matter of fact that all of the New Testament’s authors were originally unattributed, names attached at least a decade after they were written – its real authors cannot be verified. Same with the OT and Moses.

    The Bible itself has been heavily edited over the centuries – if the Bible is inerrant then there’s no need to revise/edit anything. The claims that this book has remained unchanged since 2,000 years ago is simply untrue. The same people making these claims refuse to even mention the apocryphal books, most of which existed during the same time as the Gospels and were later arbitrarily removed from the canon by church ‘authorities’.

    As with all historical games of telephone it’s possible that Jesus existed, but as of yet there’s no first hand, empirical evidence for it. Second hand – hearsay (my cousin knew someone who…) – which is all we have, is not proof.

    @Tyron Parsons – Second hand historical accounts are not prima facie, they’re hearsay.
    If one of the oldest Christian ideas for a Jesus is derived from the Hebrew texts & the Jews insist Christians mistranslated their language, this also coupled with the fact there are NO undisputed records for Jesus existence (all claims of Jesus derive from hearsay accounts & the earliest sources are only found in the early Christian community) then where does that leave the Biblical Jesus in terms of historical veracity?

    It’s left to personal belief, which is of course an individual choice but a historical Jesus as he’s depicted in the Bible is widely disputed among historians of all persuasions. Jesus existence is not an objective fact, it is a subjective reality like nearly every other religious belief in the world.

    • Bob says:

      You said – “It’s a matter of fact that all of the New Testament’s authors were originally unattributed, names attached at least a decade after they were written – its real authors cannot be verified.”
      Complete baloney , the various different writings of the gospels were well known by the students of those who wrote them and they knew full well who wrote them as they were handed down to them from those who wrote them.

  29. Danny Adams says:

    “But even the gospel stories don’t actually say, “I was there.””

    The closest any of the Gospels get to this (or being written by the claimed author) is, according a story recorded by the 4th century Christian historian Eusebius, the Gospel of Matthew. According to Eusebius, Matthew was a disciple of Peter and showed Peter the Gospel when it was done, and Peter gave it his nod of approval.

    The early Christian historians also seemed to realize that John – the latest Gospel and the only one where Jesus might have claimed to be God – was not written by the apostle himself. Papias, if I remember right, wrote in the 2nd century of John the Apostle and John the Presbyter as being two different people living in preaching in Asia Minor, with the latter being the one who wrote the Gospel.

    For that matter, the early historians weren’t even sure that all of Paul’s letters were written by Paul. The 3rd century bishop and author Origen wrote that only God alone knew who wrote all those letters. The canon we have wasn’t completely made canonical until the mid-3rd century, when a church council decided that even if Paul had not written the letters, they were in Paul’s spirit and should be included.

    • Bob says:

      ‘ Concerning the four Gospels which are uncontroverted in the church of God under heaven, I have learned that the Gospel according to Matthew was written first. He composed it in the Hebrew tongue and published it for the converts from Judaism. The second one written was that according to Mark, who wrote it according to the instruction of Peter.The third was the one according to Luke, which he composed for the converts from the Gentiles. This is the Gospel commended by Paul. Last of all , there is the one according to John. ”

      Origen

  30. Adam Evenson says:

    Whether Jesus was actual or fiction is of no account to the one that knows that a Supreme Power is at the base of the universe. Call it God or whatever one will, there is a Power so fantastically grand that puny mortal minds cannot call up the tiniest portion of said Power, Glory, or whatever one would choose to label It. This Power moves within and around me daily as I witness the awesome magic of its machinations in my life. I am so humbled by this Power’s Absolute Authority in my puny existence that I have no choice but yield everything to It of which I am capable. My “yielding” has nothing to do with anything except an overweening Intelligence within me that reveals The Greatness In Whose Awesome Grip I AM. I fear nothing except The One In Whose Grip I AM. And any other (than I, that is, if there actually be such), be he or she “scholar” or otherwise, which is not humbled in such Presence, is a hopeless fool lacking the intelligence of a simple worm and ought to be grateful that The Power of which I write doesn’t care enough to squash that worm underfoot and allows it to exist with its “lofty” notions that God does not exist. Ha, ha, ha.

    • Bob says:

      You said – “Whether Jesus was actual or fiction is of no account to the one that knows that a Supreme Power is at the base of the universe.”

      What Jesus is , is of the utmost importance ,before Jesus was made flesh, He existed Always with God as the Logos of God, which is the intelligence, thoughts and reasoning of God, through which God acts.
      God is the supreme being ,the Logos is the thoughts and commands of the being of God . By Gods Logos He created a being in union with a human woman , Mary , and the child was Jesus. A new being, a new Adam , part God , part human. The first Adam was tempted by Satan and fell into sin by disobedience to Gods commmand ,the new Adam – Jesus was also tempted by Satan but withstood this temptation and remained sinless.
      Whats this mean for humans ? – everything ! Jesus remained sinless and the Spirit of Jesus is what God will send into a believer in order for him to withstand the temptation of Satan. Believe and be born again through water and the Spirit and become part of the new Adam – Jesus , or die in your sins.

  31. Bob says:

    You said — “His brother John protected his wife and son (yes, Jesus, Jr.) and they moved to Southern France (Magdalene pregnant with her first daughter) and settled in Carcassonne. Jesus made his way to Carcassone and fathered a second daughter ”
    This is pure baloney created by the ruling families in early Europe to use as a tool to hold power and exercise autority over the population by creating the lie that they were descended from Jesus lineage and therefore the population must submit to them or be considered as being in rebellion against Jesus family. John spent much of his life residing in Ephesus and died there not in France.
    Jesus DID NOT make His way to Carcasonne, He ascended 30 days after His resurection and is sitting at the right hand of God .

  32. Bob says:

    ” Matthew also issued a written Gospel among the Hebrews in their own dialect, while Peter and Paul were preaching at Rome ”

    Irenaeus

  33. Bob says:

    ” Mark , the disciple and interpreter of Peter, also handed down to us in writing what had been preached by Peter. ”

    Irenaeus

  34. Wulfrano Ruiz Sainz says:

    Thank God there is an eternal hell of fire waiting for these Christ-denying morons.

  35. Wulfrano Ruiz Sainz says:

    Thank you, dear Lord, for sending these crazy bastards into the hell-hole to be eaten by the Dragon Lucifer.

  36. Wulfrano Ruiz Sainz says:

    These demon-possessed pieces of shit will get their brains eaten by hellish monkeys more intelligent than they.

  37. Chantal Brennan says:

    I am surprise this article does not mention the historical record from the roman Scholar know as Josephus.
    Here is the detail from Wikipedia.

    The extant manuscripts of the writings of the 1st-century Romano-Jewish historian Flavius Josephus include references to Jesus and the origins of Christianity.[1][2] Josephus’ Antiquities of the Jews, written around 93–94 AD, includes two references to the biblical Jesus Christ in Books 18 and 20 and a reference to John the Baptist in Book 18.[1][3]

    Scholarly opinion on the total or partial authenticity of the reference in Book 18, Chapter 3, 3 of the Antiquities, a passage that states that Jesus the Messiah was a wise teacher who was crucified by Pilate, usually called the Testimonium Flavianum, varies.[4][5][1] The general scholarly view is that while the Testimonium Flavianum is most likely not authentic in its entirety, it is broadly agreed upon that it originally consisted of an authentic nucleus, which was then subject to Christian interpolation or forgery [5][6][7][8][9][10] by fourth-century apologist Eusebius or by others.[11] Although the exact nature and extent of the Christian redaction remains unclear,[12] there is broad consensus as to what the original text of the Testimonium by Josephus would have looked like.[9]

    Modern scholarship has largely acknowledged the authenticity of the reference in Book 20, Chapter 9, 1 of the Antiquities to “the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James” [13] and considers it as having the highest level of authenticity among the references of Josephus to Christianity.[14][1][2][15][16][17] However, critics point out that Josephus wrote about a number of people who went by the name Jesus, Yeshua or Joshua,[18] and also speculate that Josephus may have considered James a fraternal brother rather than a sibling.[19]

    Almost all modern scholars consider the reference in Book 18, Chapter 5, 2 of the Antiquities to the imprisonment and death of John the Baptist also to be authentic.[20][21][22]

    The references found in Antiquities have no parallel texts in the other work by Josephus such as the Jewish War, written 20 years earlier, but some scholars have provided explanations for their absence.[23] A number of variations exist between the statements by Josephus regarding the deaths of James and John the Baptist and the New Testament accounts.[20][24] Scholars generally view these variations as indications that the Josephus passages are not interpolations, for a Christian interpolator would have made them correspond to the New Testament accounts, not differ from them.[20][25][24]

  38. Patricia Ress says:

    If the historical Jesus doesn’t satisfy the average modern Christian, we have to determine what is missing to bring back the satisfaction of belief. It may take some time, but it is worth the effort. I have seen short essays carved in rock which described Jesus in quite some detail. It is based on observing someone not just repeating stories. But we must be careful. As Billy Graham once observed,”we need to accept God as he is and not as we wish him to be.” If there is some detail which doesn’t fit with our expectations, we must becareful not to throw the baby out with the bathwater,” aS A friend of mine once commented. We need to look at all the things that are part of the concept of Christ and live a life as exemplary as possible.

  39. dan says:

    I believe religious books and their scholars are written in esoteric form. The sheeple herd are given the exoteric explanation. So I believe the bible is versed in cryptology. Jesus is the sun of Ra. Who ever gave you this religion is now taking it back. They want you walking on their left hand path.

  40. Anonymous says:

    Praise the Lord

  41. John says:

    People, people, PLEASE!

    Faith is PERSONAL. Religion is controlling people. Religions have caused and still cause wars, conflict, suffering, inequality in society. Religions limit freedom of spirit and body. Religions are lead by people who think what’s good and bad for everyone, they want to control people. A religion is all about power. Each religion claims it is the true belief to a god and that all others are wrong and are to be obliterated by whatever (non)violent means. This is presumptuous, arrogant and even dictatorial.

    I am sick and tired of all the religions in the world. I am a FREE human being. I am perfectly able myself to decide how to live a good life and what’s good or bad.

    For the reasons mentioned here (and more) I call myself a spiritual person instead of a religious one.

  42. Joyce says:

    Oh Dear! Oh Dear! Let’s take a big step back out of the illusion that is ‘life’. NOTHING in ‘life’ is actually ‘real’! We are ALL of the Creative Power, we are ALL powerful energy Beings, experiencing what we call ‘life’, which is a holographic experience of a very restricted frequency band.

    As part of this experience, and by using the (usually uncontrolled) power of the mind, we have created much which confuses and obfuscates, including ‘powerful deities’ mostly re-created figures from former times.
    The ‘virgin birth’ story etc has its roots in folklore of much earlier ‘times’, and the theme of a male teacher from ordinary background,is also present from pre-Egyption ‘times’. Please research this, it is available. There is nothing in Christianity that is new,the figures, stories etc in it have weaved their way through much earlier cycles of human experience.

    What we call ‘a human’ is a partial thread of our available energy, experiencing whatever we wish to, this planet, other planets, other dimensions. Because we are so restricted from what we really are, we naturally feel vulnerable, and seek external guidance and direction. Religion has never taught spiritual truths, deliberately leaving out that which we need to know, such as our true nature and origins.

    All energy has a polarity, we have what is called ‘Light’ and ‘darkness’ as part of this holographic physical dimension. We are NOT vulnerable to indiscriminate ‘darkness’, unless we voluntarily enter it, and we have, or will soon have, when we have completed the current planetary upgrade, the power to create a balanced human experience on this planet.

    We are growing up, and understanding that we do not need to be in supplication to one or many human-created gods or deities, feeling vulnerable and inferior and in need of protection and direction.

    It is humanity’s spiritual responsible to re-balance the energies of this planet, we can do it and have the tools of heart-centred love, regard and ethical focus for all, which are aspects of the Creative Force, of which we are all a part.

    Peace to All

    • Jed says:

      Very well said! Seek spiritual and metaphysical truth rather than blind belief in religious stories that keep us disempowered and locked in mental prisons.

  43. Basho says:

    The end result of believing, of having faith in a truth that you have not realized yourself.

    It is hearsay.

    Osho

    https://www.facebook.com/TheHiddenSplendour/photos/a.387870444615306.87650.387846201284397/400412510027766/?type=1&theaterBasho

  44. THE HIDDEN KING OF ENGLAND -ARMA CHRISTI – UNVEILING THE ROSE, Volumes 4 & 5 very clearly outline the lives of both Jesus, or Jesus’s, or Jesuses – one in ENGLAND and another in The Algarve.
    This information comes from the two thousand year-old Desposyni Papers.
    The reason for the confusion, debate and mythologising was to keep the Legend Alive so that you would recognise the truth when it was revealed.
    Regards,
    Greg Hallett
    Research-based go-there Historian

  45. semaj says:

    What a pathetic, pointless argument! Have you so called Christians actually looked around you at whats going on around the world? Pray(?)show me the evidence for a god that loves the human race, apparently we are made in his/her image, what a cretin he/she must be! Perhaps some of you would do well to research the name of the pope (12th/13th century maybe) who said, and I quote, “it has served us well this myth of Christ”. If you are a true Christian and adhere to the claimed teachings then how could you ever be happy knowing there are people in hell! I am sure you so called Christians are fighting hard for those poor besieged people in Gaza, well are you?

  46. brtanner says:

    “It is interesting to note that some of the harshest debunkers of fringe Jesus myth theories like those from Zeitgeist or Joseph Atwill (who tries to argue that the Romans invented Jesus) are from serious Mythicists like Fitzgerald, Carrier and Price.”

    Wonderful to be able to dismiss scholarly work with a word like “fringe.” Did you read Atwill’s “Caesar’s Messiah?” If you give it a close read you’ll find that it presents correlations beyond coincidence, that rise to the level of proof that the “gospels” must have been created in concordance with “Josephus’” official imperial histories of the wars in Judea and related writings on Judaic society. You know, the ones which feature perhaps the only detailed accounts of the existence of Jesus in a “historic” text.

    If we truly want to awaken from the nightmare of Christian history, Atwill’s work is essential.

  47. franklin cerna says:

    Asegurar que jesus no existio es como negar que no existieron un sin numero de seres que trajeron enseñanza a este planeta filosofos avatares grandes maestros espirituales, si ellos no quieren creer nadie se los puede impedir lo importante como aseveran los maestros interanos guardianes de terra lo importante es el mensaje no el mensajero.amaos los unos a los otros.

  48. Wulfrano Ruiz Sainz says:

    Thank God all these antichristian lying devil-possessed bastards are going to hell to suck shit from Lucifer’s fetid ass!

    • joseph says:

      Yep, i wanna be a good, loving, non-judgmental christian like Wulfrano Ruiz Sainz- who epitomizes the long-running ruthlessness towards those who dare to believe differently…

      Wulfrano Ruiz Sainz… You’re a wonderful window revealing the hatred and vileness inherent in All religious superiority. Your rage is nothing more than your own unrequited doubt seething within. Do you really believe God requires ‘you’ to argue about his existence when proving His experience is not possible to a limited 5-sense (intellectual) paradigm?

      Brother, get on with your inner-dance and leave these outer worlds and their silly words of proof. You will indeed become more peaceful and less-threatened; The Source of Love will see to it. :)

      Blessings.

    • semaj says:

      Sorry Wulfrano, there’s no way I’m becoming an MP!

  49. Bob says:

    The following is a quote by Origen concerning the challenge to the meaning of the word Olmah [ not Almah ]
    He shows that this exact same word also occurs in Deuteronomy
    and that it clearly means Virgin not young woman.
    “A Jew might split words and say the words are not ‘Look a virgin will give birth ” but ” look , a young woman …. ” . I reply that the word Olmah which the Septuagint has rendered by Virgin ” but others by ‘young woman ” occurs in Deuteronomy being applied, clearly to a virgin in the following passage ; ” If a woman who is a virgin [Olmah ]is betrothed unto a husband …”

    Origen – 248 A.D.

    • joseph says:

      Dear Bob,

      i respect your views and ‘beliefs’ concerning Christ as i do everyone else but quoting scripture to an open audience (as christians often do) which were written as myth and metaphor to support your ‘interpretations’- as well as ‘your’ personal faith, well, brother… it feels a bit desperate, defensive and presumptuous.

      Why become embroiled in this outer, defensive game of ‘proving’ God or any other aspect of spiritual endeavor when it is impossible and removes one from the peacefulness of inner-experience? Scripture, spiritually-related poetry, etc, are ALL based on personal, ‘internal’ experience which will never be the same in another. Your interpretations, Bob, are yours. Why muddy these beautiful waters with defensive quibbling and quoting which has and continues to be the source of murderous hatred towards others?

      Arguing, defending, vilifying, etc, are usually signs of unrequited doubt which lies in the ego-persona: our false sense of self. But when one takes in and ‘feels’ (with breath) what scripture or poetry ignites (in them) then likely it will reveal the next stepping stone towards a direct experience (versus mental ‘beliefs’) with God Himself.

      So many self-appointed secret agents for Christ… As i said in a previous comment, attempting to ‘prove’ God to an intellect is not only ludicrous but reveals yet another intellect out of alignment with its inner-experience. When Christ and God become manifest in our hearts and no longer in our heads with their mouth traps, we shut up… and get on with living it!

      This is the road to peace, my gentle brother. Many blessings.

      • Bob says:

        You stated -”i respect your views and ‘beliefs’ concerning Christ as i do everyone else but quoting scripture to an open audience (as christians often do) which were written as myth and metaphor to support your ‘interpretations’- as well as ‘your’ personal faith, well, brother… it feels a bit desperate, defensive and presumptuous.”
        The words of Jesus, the words of the Apostles and the words of those taught by the Apostles are not myth they are written and recorded testimony .
        As for who is desperate it is those of your kind that are most desperate that the words of the Bible , especially the veracity of the new testament writers not be defended , that the attacks against it and them go undefended so that the lying of the antichrists go forth unchallenged and allowed to appear as fact to those hear them.
        Desperate are they who are so desperate in their attempts to find something anything in which to try to nullify the scriptures that they sink to calling into question the truth of who wrote the various books of the New Testament, all in a very desperate need to establish this as questionable in the minds of those hear them.

  50. semaj says:

    It will be interesting to see whose ‘god’ helps who in the coming WW3! Wake up sheeple, we are sleepwalking into it and NO ‘god’ will appear to help the indoctrinated masses. Every religion that has ever been invented, including Christianity, thinks they are right. Get real before its too late! If only people were more switched on to the totalitarian tiptoe than trying to score points over semantics, its all lies for dogs sake!

  51. zbeech says:

    I am a Muslim and I know that Jesus did exist because the Qur’an says He did. He was a Prophet but not God like Christians have been brainwashed to believe. If you read the Qur’an some of the things pointed out in this article makes sense, because according to the Qur’an, Jesus did not die on a cross … he did not die at all and is with God right now and will return in the last days of earth. Anyone who reads the Bible and especially the New Testament can see that is contradicts itself so many times that you could not possibly believe that it could be the Inspired word of God to anyone!! God does not make mistakes and He does not contradict Himself. The Bible may have some truly inspired words from God in it but it has been changed so many times and so many books have been deleted from it that it can not longer claim to be the word of God. I ask that anyone who is skeptical of the Bible or of Jesus being real to read the HOLY Qur’an.. it will change your life. Jesus was/is real and he is still alive waiting in Paradise with God! He will Return! Islam requires that we believe in Jesus as a Prophet and it is blasphemy to say he did not exist!

    • Bob says:

      You said -”according to the Qur’an, Jesus did not die on a cross … he did not die at all and is with God right now and will return in the last days of earth. ”
      The Quran has no authority to make any decisions regarding Jesus. Mohammed was not alive anytime near the events to witness anything concerning Jesus.

      Mohammed stated that he is the Comforter spoken about in the Bible, but what does the Bible actually say ?

      John 14:26 “But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.”
      Mohammed was certainly Not the Holy Ghost . The above scripture also states that the Holy Ghost would bring into remembrance to the Apostles the things told to them by Jesus , did Mohammed bring into remembrance what was said by Jesus ? No, he contradicts what Jesus taught which is proof that Mohammed was not the Comforter as he claimed. The above scripture also states that the Comforter would be sent in Jesus name, Mohammed certainly was not sent in Jesus name, more proof of Mohammeds lies and distortions concerning the Bible.
      John 15:26 “But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:”
      We are told that the Comforter is the Spirit of truth, which is more proof that Mohammed was Not the Comforter as Mohammed did not testify of Jesus , he testified against Him.

    • Bob says:

      Matthew 17:22-24
      “22 And while they abode in Galilee, Jesus said unto them, The Son of man shall be betrayed into the hands of men:
      23 And they shall kill him, and the third day he shall be raised again.”

      Matthew 20:17-19
      17 And Jesus going up to Jerusalem took the twelve disciples apart in the way, and said unto them,
      18 Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be betrayed unto the chief priests and unto the scribes, and they shall condemn him to death,
      19 And shall deliver him to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify him: and the third day he shall rise again.

  52. jayserfray says:

    I can see why this article is written, but again, I think the author or authors may suffer from a lack of spirituality. Which comes about through the opening of the third eye prematurely.

    This does not mean to say that people who have their third eye open are bad in fact many are working feverishly to wake up the general population, also many of the third eye crew work as a counter balance to dark nutters trying to harm society… well kind of.

    But the problem you all have is spirituality, you all think you “know” the truth, well actually you can see the truth, but you can only see what your consciousness is capable of seeing and that is normally not very much, because we are just talking about thought, memory and an experience, consciousness.

    So to go beyond that and make that connection, “only the penitent man will pass” Somehow you have to re-establish a connection with your heavenly Father or Creator. There has to be adoration and deep affection. This is difficult anyway, nevermind when you have opened up your third eye! But it can be done with persistence and prayer.

    Only then, when we go beyond the content of consciousness can we find out about the Christ, and why mankind has to manifest a Christ through its lack of self knowledge and prevent humanity from being lost. Which is a very real and terrifying situation.

    I wrote an article:
    http://jayserfray.wordpress.com/2014/07/30/was-there-a-christ-is-there-a-god/

  53. jayserfray says:

    Sorry I just re read my post above and its not very positive!

    What I want to say is that the Christ comes to reset everything. Inhabits the consciousness of the planet. Therefore it rises considerably and puts everything back under Universal Law instead of mans law, harmony and love.

    If this didn’t happen we would wipe ourselves out. Because this man falls under Divine order all earthly powers have to submit. This time its different though because the powers that be have all the knowledge and opportunities to change and are still resisting…. but they have to be careful because this Man is here on behalf of God the Father and he does the Fathers will.

    Whether we see God in the Christ or the Buddha or in Allah, the Creator or the Universe, each is valid, for they are the highest expression of God that we can conceive. These religions were set in place as stepping stones for man to kindle a love of God, a spiritual inward fire, something that we could conceive of, adore and worship.

    These things are good and lead to the flowering of that human being (along with self knowledge) as long as we don’t yield!

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